Codex Alera Timeline

[bookivore]

Er, no, you don't get my point.  What I was saying is this: do the books -say- outright that Tavi's birthdate (the one Isana gave him) is the same time as the First Calderon?  Let's say FC happened 15 years ago.  If Isana wanted to hide his age, she could say he's older than that, or younger.  He looks 'young for his age' so older than that is possible.  It would all depend on whether or not his birthdate is flagged as the time of FC ICly or not.

Though oddly, looking at the book (to get information to comment further on), Tavi insists that First Calderon happened far before he was born--it's in the section with the Princeps' Monument.

Somehow I missed a page of replies discussing this same point, sorry.  But for a few specific details:


I looked a the monument section and the next section with Amara, Tavi & Bernard walking to Bernardholt and found a time check - "The Marat had returned to the Calderon Valley, something that had not happened in nearly seventeen years." near the beginning of chapter 15.

Elsewhere in the book Tavi says that he is 15 but others think he looks younger than 15.  Amara asks if he's 12 or 13 when he talks about being furyless, and he says that he is 15.  15 plus nine months does not equal nearly 17, so Tavi does not know his correct age.


With Isana confessing to having stunted Tavis growth and specifically saying "I didn't stop" I think she has lied about his birthdate and then stunted him to appear even younger than his supposed 15 years.  The main logical flaw to her lie would be the official date of the death of Isana's sister, Tavi's supposed mother, which would be another thing to research.  There would be no witnesses other than Isana and Araris to leap out and say "Aha! but the woman was dead a year before you say!" if they went immediately into hiding.

[Delarith]

As events in Curser's Fury pan out we see that Tavi was born at the same time as the First Battle of Calderon.  However at the time it was before even the first of the settlers arrived in the valley (this is mentioned in the first book I think).  Also Bernard was off in the north doing his time in the legions so by time he arrives in Calderon and the rest of the people, the only thing they have to go by with Tavi's age is whatever Isana tells them.

Its possible that Tavi is older than what people think because that is what Isana has told them.  Further hiding him from prying eyes that might discover his true identy.

[belgarion]

Bernard and Isana have no secrets. Bernard knows who Tavi is. That's pretty much stated in FoC. I don't have the book in front of me at the moment, but there is a part when Isana is talking to Bernard and says something like "It's happening!" or something like that. And Isana also asks Amara if "she had come for Tavi?".  He would know exactly how old Tavi really is and he probably even knows about Isana's "tampering".

But you are right, it doesn't exactly add up by a year. Maybe it's just a slip, although Jim doesn't slip on the details.

[Yshyr]

Bernard and Isana have no secrets. Bernard knows who Tavi is. That's pretty much stated in FoC. I don't have the book in front of me at the moment, but there is a part when Isana is talking to Bernard and says something like "It's happening!" or something like that. And Isana also asks Amara if "she had come for Tavi?".  He would know exactly how old Tavi really is and he probably even knows about Isana's "tampering".

But you are right, it doesn't exactly add up by a year. Maybe it's just a slip, although Jim doesn't slip on the details.

I am not so sure about Bernard knowing.  In CuF he has no clue who Fade is.  My guess is that Isana told Bernard that Tavi's Father was a high ranking citizen and his family might come looking for him some day.  Given how few rights non citizens seem to have that would probably be enough of a story to get Bernard to be on guard.  If she had told him the truth then I see no reason for her to Keep Araris a secret from Bernard.

[Delarith]

Yeah I wonder how much Bernard knows, how much he's figured out and how many lies he believes because thats what Isana told him.

[bookivore]

I also wonder how long Isana and Araras were separated - we know that Isana told Bernard to buy Fade which implies that she didn't just meet up with Bernard at some point with Tavi and Fade with her.  At the very least Fade was with someone else who was the supposed owner.  At most?? He was off doing something away from Isana for a while and showed up with a slaver.

[kokolores]

I think Fade stayed mostly out of sight but always close by Isana right up to the day Bernard came back, then he burned himself and engineered his own sale. Afterall it's not as if that was particularly hard, all he had to do was accumulate a debt he couldn't pay back and let his creditor sell him to the next slaver.

[belgarion]

I had a thought. What if Isana water crafted the brands on Fade's face?
She might have had her hands full with taking care of Tavi, escaping the Marat, and water crafted Fade? That would be exhausting especially for a water crafter. Can you imagine the emotions coming from a baby? It would be almost constant, except when the baby is asleep. And of course, we have the actions Isana was taking to suppress Tavi's furies. That had to add to the burden.

[kokolores]

I had a thought. What if Isana water crafted the brands on Fade's face?
She might have had her hands full with taking care of Tavi, escaping the Marat, and water crafted Fade? That would be exhausting especially for a water crafter. Can you imagine the emotions coming from a baby? It would be almost constant, except when the baby is asleep. And of course, we have the actions Isana was taking to suppress Tavi's furies. That had to add to the burden.

I remember it being said that Fade branded himself.

In regards to the emotions of a baby I'd say that was the least problem. A baby's emotions are quite simple and rather easy to deal with, as long as it's fed, warm and there is something to satisfy its curiosity it is usually content, so I don't see any problem for a water crafter. It's powerful emotions like fear, pain, anger, passion and hatred that have the greatest impact on a water crafter and those aren't what you would usually find in a baby. Adults are a lot harder to deal with in that regard, so I'd say Araris fear for Isana and her baby and her own feelings would have been a far bigger problem than a crying baby.

[JRBobC]

15 BFC: Tavi is born (FC p. 28) at the end of First Calderon. (confirmed in CF)
-Kitai is born. (FC p. ?? - revealed during Challenge of Wit)
-Alia dies. (CF Chapter 5)

Not trying to be nit-picky but shouldn't this be "Trial of Wits" FC paperback pg. 266
 

-Tavi bonds with Kitai of the Marat. (FC p. 307-308)
-Second Battle of Calderon.
-Tavi receives patronage to the Academy from the First Lord. (FC p. 433)

Also somewhere in here shouldn't it be mentioned that Tavi and Kitai (mainly Tavi though) awoke the Vord Queen that was in sleep/hibernation/whatever in the Wax Forest/Valley of Silence?

Otherwise, and except for the stale-thread seems to be pretty spot on.

[Kathleen Dante]

I looked a the monument section and the next section with Amara, Tavi & Bernard walking to Bernardholt and found a time check - "The Marat had returned to the Calderon Valley, something that had not happened in nearly seventeen years." near the beginning of chapter 15.

In further support of First Calderon and Tavi's birth being ~17 BFC, in ch.52 of AF, Fidelias takes Lady Aquitaine into a sitting room that was dim and quiet "since Gaius's first wife had died some twenty years before" and in ch.55, Gaius says his first wife took sick not long after she heard of Septimus's death.

Another item for the timeline:
~800 BFC Gaius Secundus arrests Lady Rhodes for treason, avoids civil war (from ch.32 of AF)

[Gallowglass]

Maybe a few women held the throne? Maybe a few of them went by other names. If they're like the roman emperors who had half a dozen names more than usual...for example:
Claudius Caesar Augustus Germanicus, aka Lucius Domitius Ahenobarbus, aka Nero Claudius Drusus Germanicus...

or Gaius Julius Caesar Augustus Germanicus (caligula, which was a nickname from when he was a kid)

or Tiberius Claudius Nero Caesar Augustus.

Of course, they are only known by one name, now....

Of course, there could have been First Citizens without the Gaius name.  The numbering of the Gaius's could have been an affectation started by Sextus as a political ploy and only been in real effect for the last 3 generations.

[anwan7]

Of course, there could have been First Citizens without the Gaius name.  The numbering of the Gaius's could have been an affectation started by Sextus as a political ploy and only been in real effect for the last 3 generations.

FoC, AF and CuF began with quotes from Gaius Primus, Gaius Secundus and Gaius Quartus respectively.

edited to correct spelling

[Zaphodess]

I believe the master of this universe has commented on the Gaius question somewhere. Iirc, the house of Gaius has been First Lords for a thousand years and they always counted the rulers. But it has happened a couple of times that a First Lord had no direct descendant and the throne went to a different branch of the family. Whenever that happened, they started counting from scratch.

[Gallowglass]

So what says that Gaius Tertius directly followed Gaius Secondus as first citizen?  For a dynasty of 1,000 years, the first five Gaius's had to have lived 180+ years on average and since Gaius is supposedly old at 80ish, ah the math does not compute.

A second problem is that it is highly unlikely that the son named Gaius has always survived to become First Citizen, we know that Septimus didn't.  It is very likely that at least one of the previous generations didn't survive to become First Citizen.  Then the moment he didn't survive to become first citizen as part of his required 180 years, he essentially forced his descendents to live that much longer.
 
As such, it is most likely that maybe the last 3 Gaius's have been named such, doesn't automatically mean that all of the First Citizens have been named Gaius.