Mab preventing use of Little Chicago

[peregrine]

I may be misremembering, but doesn't the WoJ suggest that Little Chicago would be destroyed if it were still there?  While leaving open the possibility that it was moved?

[Lash Dresden]

I don't remember that caveat, but that doesn't mean he didn't say it and I just missed it.

[peregrine]

I don't think he said it quite so much in as many words, but something like "Little Chicago would not have survived such intense heat," while leaving the possibility that it was never exposed to such heat unsaid.  Or something like that.

[Lash Dresden]

Hmmm.  I'll research tomorrow (unless Serack or someone else comes along with an answer before then).  Bed is calling - Work comes early. 

[TheCuriousFan]

I may be misremembering, but doesn't the WoJ suggest that Little Chicago would be destroyed if it were still there?  While leaving open the possibility that it was moved?

#330 “Jim–someone else asked this as well, but I couldn’t see an answer: Little Chicago wasn’t mentioned in Turn Coat, and was barely mentioned in Changes… was it destroyed in the fire? Did the FBI notice it? It’s it gone for good?”
It was made of (mostly) pewter. The rest was plastic. Harry hadn’t taken steps to make it less destructible (which would have interfered with its function anyway–it was built to be sensitive, not tough). There was just no way it could have survived the fire. And no, the FBI didn’t confiscate it.
Changes is, in many ways, about loss. About encountering it and feeling its pain. That happens to all of us, sooner or later. There’s no avoiding it.
The real question is, how do you pick up the pieces and keep going, afterward.

http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php/topic,21772.msg947672.html#msg947672

There's another one about how it more or less had a building fall down on it but I can't remember where it is.

[peregrine]

That's the one I'm thinking of.  Nothing he says outright says it was destroyed, just that it could not have survived the fire.  The thing about loss may or may not be related, if you want to be pedantic.

[knnn]

That's the one I'm thinking of.  Nothing he says outright says it was destroyed, just that it could not have survived the fire.  The thing about loss may or may not be related, if you want to be pedantic.

That has always been my reading too.  Jim seems to have faeried around saying outright that LC was indeed destroyed.

[Serack]

Meh, yes there is wiggle room, but it is so minuscule...


The thing is if it was retrieved pre-fire, wherever it is, it would have to be maintained, or it would be relatively useless today.  Yes it would be better than starting from the ground floor, but without the protection of a sanctuary like Harry's and continual magical maintenance, all the magical "conduits" are probably washed away by all those sunrises, and the general evolution of the city would have rendered it an inaccurate thaumatlogical (however we spell it today) link.


I feel it is less likely that it will be restored to Harry than his old shield bracelet (which is a non-zero chance I'll admit).  I think there is a higher degree of likeliness that if it still exists, it will be in the hands of an antagonist who is using it for ill.


I think we have precedent that if a Fae were the one who pulled it from the lab, they would be metaphysically obligated to return his "property" and they haven't

[raidem]

I think we have precedent that if a Fae were the one who pulled it from the lab, they would be metaphysically obligated to return his "property" and they haven't

yet.

There is the addendum that Jim states, pick up the pieces and go forward.

[knnn]

Other options (in decreasing order of plausiblity):

1) The threshold around Harry apartment was so weakend (by the FBI and possibly also once the fire started), that it didn't take much for even a faerie to grab LC.

2) A Faerie (e.g. Cat Sith) grabbed LC but was then Nemfected, and that somehow gets around said faerie's need to return it (far-fecthed, but possible).

3) TT Harry grabbed it.   

4) LC gained sentinence (through it's inclusion of Demonreach?) and saved itself.

5) Mister saved it.

[namkcas]

Griffyn,

You're ignoring the fact that after creating little Chicago, he doesn't do a tracking spell first to then do it again with little Chicago.  he just does it with little Chicago.

Not ignoring it.  If you agree with me that LC only enhances working tracking spells, your theory means that Mab would have to make Harry forget something that she knew would not work.  Which makes no sense to me.

I just think notion that Mab knows everything that is going to happen in advance at all times seems like a stretch.  I think she is really good at plotting and judging outcomes especially when it is a plan she has set in motion (SG).  I think she has lots of plans and backup plans.  But to think she:
- Knew Shagnasty would be coming after Harry
- And then kidnap Thomas

Given that we don't know why Shagnasty showed up (remember it is assumed that he followed Morgan and it could be further presumed from that he is sent by somebody aligned with Nemesis/Outsiders to make sure that Morgan is found), it would mean that Mab forsaw all the events in Edinburgh or was able to react to Morgan's run in a very insightful way.

[peregrine]

Other options (in decreasing order of plausiblity):

1) The threshold around Harry apartment was so weakend (by the FBI and possibly also once the fire started), that it didn't take much for even a faerie to grab LC.

2) A Faerie (e.g. Cat Sith) grabbed LC but was then Nemfected, and that somehow gets around said faerie's need to return it (far-fecthed, but possible).

3) TT Harry grabbed it.   

4) LC gained sentinence (through it's inclusion of Demonreach?) and saved itself.

5) Mister saved it.

Well, we see that the fae can just waltz through a threshold if they are there to help the resident.  So no need for a weak threshold.  And, as Harry hasn't asked for it back, they have no real issue with not giving it back to him.  Lea didn't give Harry his gift from his Mom until he specifically asked about it.

[knnn]

Well, we see that the fae can just waltz through a threshold if they are there to help the resident.  So no need for a weak threshold.  And, as Harry hasn't asked for it back, they have no real issue with not giving it back to him.  Lea didn't give Harry his gift from his Mom until he specifically asked about it.

Pretty sure Maggie Sr. specified that Harry not get it until he asked for it.

[Griffyn612]

Griffyn,

Not ignoring it.  If you agree with me that LC only enhances working tracking spells, your theory means that Mab would have to make Harry forget something that she knew would not work.  Which makes no sense to me.

We don't know why she would not want him to use it.  Maybe it was to force him to use Demonreach.  Maybe she was worried about the backlash if it succeeded and Shagnasty tried eating his astral form.  Maybe it was something else altogether.

All we know is that the circumstances are similar to those when she'd taken his memories previously, and there's no obvious reason for Harry not to use it.

I just think notion that Mab knows everything that is going to happen in advance at all times seems like a stretch.  I think she is really good at plotting and judging outcomes especially when it is a plan she has set in motion (SG).  I think she has lots of plans and backup plans.  But to think she:
- Knew Shagnasty would be coming after Harry
- And then kidnap Thomas

Given that we don't know why Shagnasty showed up (remember it is assumed that he followed Morgan and it could be further presumed from that he is sent by somebody aligned with Nemesis/Outsiders to make sure that Morgan is found), it would mean that Mab forsaw all the events in Edinburgh or was able to react to Morgan's run in a very insightful way.

Yeah, the "Mab knows everything" thing is obnoxious.  I think it has to be a more direct reason that we're just not seeing, if she did in fact do it.  When she took his memory of fire magic before, it was to protect him from being tracked by it.  there's got to be something just as simple. I just can't think of what it could be.

[namkcas]

Griffyn,

Under those thoughts...I accept your assertions!