D&D Races

[RedRobe]

I saw a YouTube video of a group playing a FATE fantasy game set in Eberron. I thought something like that would be a cool change of pace for one of my groups. How would I go about setting up characters who are not human, but shouldn't be beyond human power level? Basically how would I represent demi-human racial traits? Is there a FATE supplement with guidelines for stuff like this?

[dragoonbuster]

I saw a YouTube video of a group playing a FATE fantasy game set in Eberron. I thought something like that would be a cool change of pace for one of my groups. How would I go about setting up characters who are not human, but shouldn't be beyond human power level? Basically how would I represent demi-human racial traits? Is there a FATE supplement with guidelines for stuff like this?

If by "shouldn't be beyond human power level" you mean "no supernatural powers," then it just comes down to good Aspect naming, and/or Stunt and Skill selection to best represent their natural strengths. I'd emphasize the Aspect-naming in particular as being important to delineate between humans and humanoid beings on a similar level.

I'm not familiar enough with D&D to make any specific suggestions; I'm sure there are a lot of people on here that can give you concrete ideas.

[Taran]

Yeah, aspects should cover it.  Some of the races wouldn't be Pure Mortal, though, as some of them have 'supernatural abilities'....like gnomes.

Stunts should cover some of the specific advantages they get, as well as skill selection. 
Halflings tend to have higher stealth and agility and lower endurance
Half-orcs tend to have Higher Might and lower Rapport
Elves tend to have higher discipline
Half-elves have higher rapport

If you want to do what they have in the PHB, you could give the races "musts".   
Halflings 'must' have a minimum athletics or stealth of Fair

You could boost the refresh of the game and give the races 2 free refresh worth of powers and give humans 2  free stunts

Have them choose from a list.
Halflings get 2 refresh from the following list:  diminutive size and...something...maybe supernatural sense (listening); speed, cloak of Shadows etc...
Half-orcs get inhuman strength and echoes of the beast darkvision
Dwarves get inhuman toughness and echoes of the beast darkvision
Elves get supernatural speed and the Sight
Half-Elves get any one of the building block powers
Gnomes would get glamours and echoes of the beast

that's way too much work, though.
Really,  the other races are Magical Races.  They aren't totally Mortal - especially elves, Dwarves, orcs and gnomes.  In Dresden terms, they're scions or changelings or Pure Fay.  I'd just use their 'race' as a guide for what powers and stunts they could take.

Humans start as Pure Mortal unless they become 'paladins', clerics, wizards etc...  Magic items are IoP's.  That puts the typical human above a normal 'pure mortal', so they'd lose their Pure Mortal refresh bonus.

[Cadd]

I'd probably look to running it with FATE Core rather than DFRPG to avoid having to remove setting flavor, but that is strictly preference.
If you want to run it with the DFRPG system, drop the "Pure Mortal" refresh bonus (since it's a setting specific thing anyway) or expand it to give X refresh (or a selection worth X) of "racial abilities" to each race.

[sdfds68]

I honestly wouldn't use too many DF rules for a game like this. In a tolkienesque high fantasy (The basis of DnD rules) setting magic isn't something that separates the normals from the main characters and their main characters' world. Magic is the norm in that setting. Wizards walk into town to chat with the locals and set off fireworks. A town has a local hero to shoot down any inconvenient dragons with his bow.

So while limiting powers with refresh is still probably a good idea, the 'pure mortal' benefit doesn't make too much sense any more, seeing as how that's a setting specific rule. Some of the powers would definitely work as pure copy/pasta. DF Magic probably needs to be forgotten for a DnD setting. Something closer to the Vancian magic system, like a caster getting a certain number of diceless attacks, blocks, manuevers and so forth for 'free' might work better.

Ex:Bob the wizard is stuck in a crowd at the docks, and he needs to haul his skinny wizard butt out of there before the assassins find him. Bob uses a fair manuever spell prepared he prepared that morning and mutters expeditious retreat, gaining two tags. He quickly uses them both on his mediocre athletics to run like very slow wind!

Some 'free' (or mandatory) starting stunts for non-humans will probably cover mechanical racial benefits. Some extra boxes of toughness for dwarves, a bonus to resisting outside influence for Elves, the ability to stay in the game after a particularly painful sounding physical takeout for Warforged, that kind of thing.

Basically I agree with what Cadd said.

[Sanctaphrax]

The Pure Mortal benefit is still a good idea in other settings, since Powers are usually significantly stronger than Stunts. Even if the narrative justification goes away, I'd recommend keeping it as a mechanical thing.

Anyway, for a standard LA + 0 D&D race an Aspect ought to be enough. Maybe give each race a 1-Refresh extra if you want to make them mechanically weightier. An extra Fate Point for the human, darkvision and +1 to poison resistance and working with stone/metal for the dwarf, +1 to some dodge rolls and fear defence rolls and Stealth rolls for the halfling...and so on.

The nice thing about giving each race a Refresh-based extra is that it gives you a natural way to include more powerful races. Just give them a more expensive racial power.

[RedRobe]

I appreciate all of your suggestions!

[RedRobe]

I found a website that is an attempt to FATE-ify DragonLance. Do a browser search for Fate of the Lance. It seems interesting, though I am not versed in Fate Core magic systems.

[InFerrumVeritas]

When running a D&D like FATE game for my little brother and his friends, each non-human character had:
1 aspect related to species
2 refresh worth of powers related to species

Humans got two extra refresh and would typically take an aspect related to their home town or kingdom.

[RedRobe]

So bearing in mind that I haven't actually played a FATE game before, and am teaching myself from the DFRPG books, here are my attempts at D&D/Pathfinder races.

Dwarf - Stonecunning: +1 to rolls related to working with stone or metal (Craftsmanship, Scholarship, Survival)
              Hardy: +1 to Endurance rolls versus poison
              Supernatural Sense (Darkvision): see in the dark up to one zone away, in black and white only

Elf - Keen Senses: +1 to Alerness (Passive Awareness trapping)
       Resist Enchantment: +1 to Discipline (Mental Defense trapping)
       Supernatural Sense (Low-light Vision): see in partial light up to 2 zones away, full    color

Gnome - Small Size: as Diminutive Size, but all penalties and bonuses are halved (minimum 1); only -1 to physical stress you inflict per attack instead of only inflicting 1 stress
     and choose either:
              Supernatural Sense (Low-light vision) and
         Keen Senses

          or Echoes of the Beast: Low-light vision and Gnome-themed stuff

Half-Elf - Adaptability: Choose one Mortal Stunt
and two of the following:
              Keen Senses
              Resist Enchantment
              Supernatural Sense (Low-light vision)

Half-Orc - Supernatural Sense (Darkvision)
                Intimidating: +1 on Intimidation rolls (Threats trapping)
                Orc Ferocity: +1 Endurance (Physical Fortitude trapping)

Halfling - Small Size
                 Keen Senses
and one of the following:
                  Sure-Footed: +1 Athletics (Climbing trapping)
                  Fearless: +1 Discipline (Emotional Control trapping vs. fear)

Human - Pure Mortal +2 to starting Refresh
      +1 Fate Point

Sorry about the formatting. I tried to make it as easy to read as possible. Any helpful critiques are welcome!

[Haru]

My opinion, and I often tend to go towards the rules-light end of the spectrum: don't bother.

Ok, that sounds stupid. Let me explain.

In Fate, having actual mechanical benefits is bought by your refresh, and that's a very limited resource. So if you force people to take powers they don't really like or need, it's going to feel like they are going to need to take a specific race to be most effective in any given class. Granted, that's very D&Desque, but Fate can do a whole lot more, without sacrificing anything.

So let's start with the dwarf as an example (mainly because I love playing dwarfs). Say I'm playing a dwarf berserker. Hardy is a cool thing to have. Darkvision probably as well, though I don't necessarily need it. And then there's stonecunning. Don't get me wrong, it fits perfectly for the typical racial bonuses that dwarfs get, but why does my berserker have to take it? He's never worked with stone a day in his life. It's not important to his life, and more important: it's not important to his story.

And that's really the kicker. A character should have powers that amplify their story. By forcing a power onto them that doesn't fit, you kind of take away from this. If you keep things free, you can get a much broader variety of characters. How about a halfling berserker? Sure, it's unusual, but that's got to be an interesting backstory. And just because he's a halfling, he doesn't have to be any worse at berserking than the dwarf. Or an elven miner with "stonecunning". And so forth.

And here's another kicker: A character can still have a power without having it. Weird, right?
So let's say my dwarf berserker has been exploring an old mine with his party and it collapsed over them and they are trapped below. I can then spend a fate point on my high concept of Dwarf Berserker from the Iron Mountains and say that my dwarven nose can help me find a way out. By spending the fate point at this moment, I shine a spotlight on this part of the character, it's a cool knightriderbuff, but overall, the character still isn't about this.

Or another example: the Gnome. How tall is a Gnome that doesn't have "diminutive size"? 5 feet? taller? Nope, he's just as tall as any regular Gnome. The difference is that the Gnome without the power hasn't learned to use his size to his advantage. Any negative effect can easily be done by compelling the character. Sure it would be great if you could reach the shelf, too bad you're only 3 feet tall. Fate Point?


If you do it like that, you don't need any predetermined powers for the races. What the races can provide is a justification to take on powers. A dwarf could justify taking toughness just by being a dwarf. A Gnome can justify taking diminutive size for being a Gnome. An Elf can take supernatural senses for his superior eyes and ears. And so forth. That way, you won't get the standard D&D party that the racial bonuses in those systems often form, but a much more varied group of interesting characters.


***
And a quick word towards Fate Core. It's a bit more refined than DFRPG, and the rules have been a bit more streamlined. The Fate Core Toolkit has a suggestion for racial bonuses as skills, which I find especially interesting. The idea is not so much "how good are you at being a dwarf/elf/orc", but more along the lines of "how much can you influence the story by being a dwarf/elf/orc". I think that works pretty well, though not in the form of the DFRPG, where we already have a lot of powers explicitly listed. Both versions should work well in adapting the races, I think.

[Taran]

.If you do it like that, you don't need any predetermined powers for the races. What the races can provide is a justification to take on powers. A dwarf could justify taking toughness just by being a dwarf. A Gnome can justify taking diminutive size for being a Gnome. An Elf can take supernatural senses for his superior eyes and ears. And so forth. That way, you won't get the standard D&D party that the racial bonuses in those systems often form, but a much more varied group of interesting characters. 

This is what I was trying to get at earlier:  if you look at each race as a Dresden Scion/changeling, then each race and its associated aspects are just a guideline for what types of powers you could take, if you wanted.   Halflings tend to use their size to their advantage so diminutive size should be an option for choosing powers but it doesn't mean they all need to take that power.   Just the same way a troll scion might have toughness and strength as possible power selections.  But not every troll scion has a strength power. 

[RedRobe]

This is all starting to gel finally. So taking a look at some of the racial traits above, could any of them be considered stunts so a character could take advantage of the Pure Mortal refresh bonus? For example if a dwarf wanted to be a strait-up warrior, could he still take Hardy and Darkvision, and still be Pure Mortal?

[Taran]

Hardy and stonecunning are both stunts, although they seem a bit weak given how specific they are.  I might boost it to +2. 

Supernatural sense is, obviously a power so they couldn't take darkvision and still be pure mortal.

Elf: the keen senses at+1 are good as is because they are a blanket bonus
Gnome: those are all supernatural powers
Orc: boost intimidate bonus to +2
Halfling: both could probably be boosted to +2

[Haru]

So taking a look at some of the racial traits above, could any of them be considered stunts so a character could take advantage of the Pure Mortal refresh bonus?

The Pure Mortal refresh bonus does a very specific thing only really applicable to the DFRPG, I think. It's a bonus to the characters free will, because he is completely free of any supernatural influence. For D&D, I don't think it fits like this.

However, a small tweak might be able to do it. Give every character a bonus of 2 refresh. These 2 points can only be used to buy racial stunts and powers, and they don't get converted into Fate points if not used. Except for Humans, who usually have a feat that relates to them being extremely versatile. That feels like it would fit the way D&D does things far better than a pure mortal bonus.