Using thaumaturgy to cure possession

[WadeL]

Can you just whip up some Thaumaturgy to cure possession? Either by Demons or by Ghosts?  Just summon the entity out of the body it is in?

I'd also love some clarification on the "ghosts need to acknowledge you to affect them" thing. Does it make them immune to everything, or just to you affecting their manifested forms? Again, mostly curious about how that affects possessed people.

[Sanctaphrax]

Can you just whip up some Thaumaturgy to cure possession? Either by Demons or by Ghosts?  Just summon the entity out of the body it is in?

Sure, why not?

I'd also love some clarification on the "ghosts need to acknowledge you to affect them" thing. Does it make them immune to everything, or just to you affecting their manifested forms? Again, mostly curious about how that affects possessed people.

Not sure exactly what you're asking here.

[dragoonbuster]

I'd also love some clarification on the "ghosts need to acknowledge you to affect them" thing. Does it make them immune to everything, or just to you affecting their manifested forms? Again, mostly curious about how that affects possessed people.

If they're manifesting a form out of ectoplasm (i.e., they're "insane ghosts", often called Specters) in order to interact with the real world, then they can be affected physically--even with bullets and knives.

If they're not manifesting a form, that's when they're in "ghost mode." Invisible or mostly invisible and hard to even detect without Ghost Speaker or being an ectomancer. This is when it's nearly impossible to affect them in any way. You have to get them to "acknowledge" you like in the beginning of Ghost Story when Harry had to call Agatha Hagglethorn's Name before he could smack her with his ghost dust...IIRC he specifically said even if he'd dumped it all over her, if she hadn't acknowledged him first it wouldn't have much effect.Once she'd taken notice of him and (from her perspective) he became "real" to her, he could then work magicks against her or use his ghost dust.

Before he used her Name, Agatha was smothering babies and thus interacting with the physical world, but she could get away with this without manifesting a physical form because that kind of action had to do with why she was dead. In a way, the babies had already been "acknowledged" by Agatha because of the reason behind her being a ghost in the first place.

[WadeL]

If they're manifesting a form out of ectoplasm (i.e., they're "insane ghosts", often called Specters) in order to interact with the real world, then they can be affected physically--even with bullets and knives.

If they're not manifesting a form, that's when they're in "ghost mode." Invisible or mostly invisible and hard to even detect without Ghost Speaker or being an ectomancer. This is when it's nearly impossible to affect them in any way. You have to get them to "acknowledge" you like in the beginning of Ghost Story when Harry had to call Agatha Hagglethorn's Name before he could smack her with his ghost dust...IIRC he specifically said even if he'd dumped it all over her, if she hadn't acknowledged him first it wouldn't have much effect.Once she'd taken notice of him and (from her perspective) he became "real" to her, he could then work magicks against her or use his ghost dust.

Before he used her Name, Agatha was smothering babies and thus interacting with the physical world, but she could get away with this without manifesting a physical form because that kind of action had to do with why she was dead. In a way, the babies had already been "acknowledged" by Agatha because of the reason behind her being a ghost in the first place.

Alright, that makes sense.  So essentially, if a ghost is already affecting you, it has already acknowledged you and is fair game. Same with a ghost manifesting.

I'll assume a ghost possessing someone is pretty similar to manifesting in this way, eh?  The "you have to be acknowledged" thing only protects ghosts who are ignoring you and being all ghostly.

[dragoonbuster]

Alright, that makes sense.  So essentially, if a ghost is already affecting you, it has already acknowledged you and is fair game. Same with a ghost manifesting.

I'll assume a ghost possessing someone is pretty similar to manifesting in this way, eh?  The "you have to be acknowledged" thing only protects ghosts who are ignoring you and being all ghostly.

I think yeah, active possession means they're pretty nuts in ghost terms and are actively engaged with the real world enough to affect them without needing special "acknowledgement."

Of course, other than an exorcism, affecting the ghost is going to be hard without also affecting the possessed body.

[WadeL]

Of course, other than an exorcism, affecting the ghost is going to be hard without also affecting the possessed body.

It seems that an exorcism would be relatively trivial with Thaumaturgy? Just summon the ghost on out of the body? Even if the ghost has 5 Conviction, that's like a 9 Complexity Thaumaturgy ritual.

[dragoonbuster]

It seems that an exorcism would be relatively trivial with Thaumaturgy? Just summon the ghost on out of the body? Even if the ghost has 5 Conviction, that's like a 9 Complexity Thaumaturgy ritual.

It would be pretty trivial, as it should be for a Wizard of the White Council (IMO). Seems like something pretty simple to handle in terms of Thaum unless your particular wizard's spellcasting weakness lies in this area.

Plus, a Superb Conviction is almost never going to be seen on anything other than Uber-Ghosts...If they did have that kind of Conviction, most would probably "move on" and cease to be ghosts. Most ghosts I'd plant at 0-3 Conviction, for one who's active enough to possess people probably closer to 3 than 0.

[Haru]

It seems that an exorcism would be relatively trivial with Thaumaturgy? Just summon the ghost on out of the body? Even if the ghost has 5 Conviction, that's like a 9 Complexity Thaumaturgy ritual.

Depends highly on how you set up the exorcism. The ritual you are describing could simply allow the wizard to get into a mental conflict with the ghost, and he needs to defeat the ghost in that conflict, in order to send it away. Or you could have your ritual be all that's necessary.

It all depends on how important you want the exorcism to the game. If it's just a minor inconvenience, the ritual alone should be more than enough. You wouldn't even have to look at the ghost's skills, just set a number for the ritual as you see fit and that's it. If you want it to have more of an impact, the whole thing could take the whole session, spanning multiple scenes.

[dragoonbuster]

Depends highly on how you set up the exorcism. The ritual you are describing could simply allow the wizard to get into a mental conflict with the ghost, and he needs to defeat the ghost in that conflict, in order to send it away. Or you could have your ritual be all that's necessary.

It all depends on how important you want the exorcism to the game. If it's just a minor inconvenience, the ritual alone should be more than enough. You wouldn't even have to look at the ghost's skills, just set a number for the ritual as you see fit and that's it. If you want it to have more of an impact, the whole thing could take the whole session, spanning multiple scenes.

Well said. I particularly like the idea of mental conflict to force it out in more dramatic situations, and that's very much in line with the purpose of a conflict/take out. I consider Harry wresting that barbed-wire spell off Mickey Malone in Dead Beat to be a sort of exorcism, and his effort in doing so would probably be best modeled as a mental conflict since he was totally exhausted by the end of it and needed a few minutes on the ground before he even got up, IIRC.

You might simplify it down to a Cat and Mouse contest, too.

[Haru]

You might simplify it down to a Cat and Mouse contest, too.

Sure. The different types of conflict resolution are by and large just pacing mechanisms. You can handle an entire story arc by just doing one roll with the dice if you are so inclined, or you can stretch it out as long as you might want to. That's part of what's called the Fate Fractal.

So handling a story arch with one roll doesn't seem like fun. So we'll do it in multiple steps. That's kind of like a contest. But we want to highlight this fight scene, so we make it a conflict, which is basically a series of single rolls.
And you can do this ad nauseum if you like. The final strike of the sword is too boring? Stretch it out as a contest. Sure, at some point it gets ridiculous, but overall, it's a way to control the speed in which the story goes. It determines if you've got a slow motion fight scene or a training montage.