Fallen Knight Of The Cross?

[CrimsonJoker]

So I was playing around with concepts for various villains for my PCs to go up against, including Vampire Mob Bosses, my own take on the Jade and Violet Courts, and a Wizard with Outsider powers related to song, but when I inevitably throw Denarians at my players as requested I wanted to do something new with it, which was when I hit upon an idea. What if a Knight Of The Cross switched teams to work with the Denarians for a reason that I have not yet determined (I have four different candidates for the Fallen Knight).

In my game I house ruled that there were more Crucifixion Swords employed by God's Knights than those made from the nails, with the second set having incorporated the thorns from the Crown Of Thorns. And its been shown that NON-Knights can use the Swords in-canon by Lea and Susan.

My wonder is how I would display this mechanically. My idea was to have his/her Holy Powers be rescinded, give them a Coin, and have them be able to still use their Sword through a loophole in its tenet. Would that work? Are there problems with my line of thinking altogether?

[Belial666]

The first time a Sword of the Cross was used to do something contrary to its purpose by their own wielder - such as slaying an innocent - they'd be destroyed.

[Hick Jr]

I'm not sure what you want, here. A Denarian, as in someone with an actual coin, who also utilizes an IoP sword with the same powers as, say, Amoracchius?

Like Belial said, that's not exactly possible. If you want to give him an unholy sword IoP, with similar powers, that's quite a bit more doable.

[bobjob]

It's also possible the Sword he has used to be one of the Holy variety... but when the Knight fell, he corrupted it turning it Unholy. Also, maybe the sword was unmade by a foolish act and then remade into something more fitting to a fallen knight.

[CrimsonJoker]

I kinda figured, so its good to have confirmation. I like the thought of a Fallen Sword though. That's more than a little interesting.

As for what I was looking for, Im going for a former Knight who betrayed his bretheren for the promise of power, to show just how dangerous a Knight can be.

[Hick Jr]

Hmm. A Weapons-focused Denarian, then? He/she would probably be like Nicodemus in that they probably wouldn't have a massively obvious "game face". I could put something together, but it'd be fairly high Refresh.

[bobjob]

My take probably wouldn't be playable at a Submerged level, but I could probably do one for 12 or so refresh. Slightly higher level game, probably no spellcasting (but there is no evidence that all Denarians can do spellcasting). You could also be a Fallen Knight who is limiting what powers he gets from his Denarian (by choice or by necessity)

[Haru]

We had a pretty cool concept for an additional sword with a somewhat different agenda, though Teggetto, the player, had to drop out before the game started.

The idea was a Knight of the Cross somewhere in the 12th century was slain in battle and in the process, Esperaccius was shattered. A Valkyrie had an interest in him and recruited him to the Einherjar, but since he dies simultaneously with Esperaccius, some part of the sword lingered in his soul when he was resurrected. When he later took up a sword and went into battle, the sword turned into the Echo of Esperaccius, as the remnants of the sword flowed from his soul into the new sword. The original Esperaccius had already been reforged at that time. Mechanically, it is pretty much the same thing, though it has more of an undercover agenda than the original swords.

[PirateJack]

It's also possible the Sword he has used to be one of the Holy variety... but when the Knight fell, he corrupted it turning it Unholy. Also, maybe the sword was unmade by a foolish act and then remade into something more fitting to a fallen knight.

How about the Knight of the Cross having to let a friend die because saving him with the Sword would have unmade it? That's a nice fertile ground for building resentment on, where he keeps there Sword but grows steadily angrier at the sacrifices he's having to make for a cause that wouldn't even let him save his friend, until he goes up against a Denarian and is convinced over to their side. He breaks the Sword by betraying his comrade in arms, perhaps killing him, perhaps not (I'd go with not because story potential). He takes up the Coin afterwards and the Fallen guides his hand in corrupting the sword into something more fitting a Knight of the Blackened Denarius.

I actually quite like this idea. I may use it in a story at some point.

[PirateJack]

We had a pretty cool concept for an additional sword with a somewhat different agenda, though Teggetto, the player, had to drop out before the game started.

The idea was a Knight of the Cross somewhere in the 12th century was slain in battle and in the process, Esperaccius was shattered. A Valkyrie had an interest in him and recruited him to the Einherjar, but since he dies simultaneously with Esperaccius, some part of the sword lingered in his soul when he was resurrected. When he later took up a sword and went into battle, the sword turned into the Echo of Esperaccius, as the remnants of the sword flowed from his soul into the new sword. The original Esperaccius had already been reforged at that time. Mechanically, it is pretty much the same thing, though it has more of an undercover agenda than the original swords.

Interestingly, Jim gave an interview recently where he said that Amoracchius and Fidelacchius have been broken and reforged before, but Esperacchius hasn't.

Doesn't have to impact your games though, just thought it was an interesting tidbit. Love and faith are often lost, but hope endures.

I expect Esperacchius to break some time around the start of the Big Apocalyptic Trilogy.

[Haru]

Interestingly, Jim gave an interview recently where he said that Amoracchius and Fidelacchius have been broken and reforged before, but Esperacchius hasn't.

Nope, it's been Amoracchius that's never been broken. It's allegedly the same one as Excalibur. Esperacchius is supposed to have been Durendal.

[bobjob]

I used the legend of the 4th nail to have a secret sword of Uriel that is only brought out in the direst of circumstances or when God's will required penance. I associated the three other swords with Michael, Rafael, and Gabriel and since Uriel in Dresden is Heaven's wetworks man, he had the secret sword of repentence, or Piactacchius. It had slightly different abilities culled from the Custom Powers list (I also think it might have give Incite Emotion: Guilt). I'll have to see if I can locate my notes.

Here's info on the Romany Crucifixion Legend

[Haru]

I used the legend of the 4th nail [...]

Right, that's a cool way to go, too.

[vultur]

Maybe you could have his coin fused with his sword, as sort of a dark copy of the Swords of the Cross. He could summon it into his hand at any time since it's his coin, which would be a fairly scary trick -- he could walk into a building past security, unarmed, then immediately have a sword in his hand.

What power level are your PCs, and what skill level do their attacks/defenses tend to be at? With that information, I could write some stats...

[bobjob]

Maybe you could have his coin fused with his sword, as sort of a dark copy of the Swords of the Cross. He could summon it into his hand at any time since it's his coin, which would be a fairly scary trick -- he could walk into a building past security, unarmed, then immediately have a sword in his hand.

Oh that's a scary freaking trick. I LIKE THAT!