Custom True Faith powers for review

[Taran]

Pretty sure you don't. It does everything you've been saying you want.

For your convenience JayTee

HOLY TOUCH [-1]
Description: You radiate holiness.
Musts: You must have the Righteousness Power in order to take this one.
Skills Affected: Conviction, attack skills.
Effects:
Holy Touch. Your presence is like holy water, which can hurt or drive away many monsters. This allows you to use your Conviction skill for maneuvers and Declarations based around the use of holy power, and may expand the range of Compels that you can inflict. All of your attacks satisfy Catches that have to do with Holy Stuff, and any attack you make against a character that is vulnerable to holy power inflicts two additional stress. As a general rule, vulnerability to holy power involves having a relevant Catch or High Concept.

[Haru]

Seriously? You too? Man, I must suck at gaging cost effectiveness for powers.

I might have stated that a bit vague. +1 use per scene for -2 is ok. But taking the power you can choose to either have that or +1 to the skill in that situation. It's the +1 to the skill option that's weak.

[JayTee]

Oh wow, that holy touch power is basically exactly what I think the corebook holy touch should be, and then some, nice! I'll definitely be taking that version in games where it's allowed.

Back on topic of the custom powers, i've been thinking on them on and off while at work, and I've come up with some revisions that i'd like to have pass inspection.

Providence -2
Description: Faith provides, granting you favor above and beyond simple chance.
Musts: The character must have taken Guide My Hand and Righteousness
Skills affected: Varies
Effect:
Faith moves Mountains: Your faith is strong. When taking this power, you gain get 1 free expenditure of a Fate Point to activate your holy powers. You may take this power multiple times, but the total amount of free expenditures cannot exceed your Conviction rating.

For providence I modified haru's suggestion and focused on the free fate points for holy stuff, effectively turning it in to a form of refinement for true faith powers. I added the conviction cap because I felt it might be abusable in higher refresh games. (granted you'd need to shove 10 refresh in it in order to get 5 uses in most games, but I figure it's better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it)


Weight of Belief -1
Description: The force of your convictions shake the world.
Musts: The character must have taken Guide My Hand.
Skills affected: Conviction
Effect: As long as you can justify it through belief, you may employ Conviction to do Declarations as if it were a Knowledge and Perception skill. This doesn't so much reflect actual knowledge or perception as your belief that things will go as they should, and the favorable outcomes Providence arranges.

Basically Belial's version of Providence as a separate/different power. I thought it was really awesome. 


Grace Against the Dark -2
Description: Mortals who leave the safety of their homes may find themselves buoyed by the knowledge that a strong spirit can make all the difference when facing the unknown terrors of the world.
Musts: The character needs to have taken Righteousness and Holy Touch
Skills affected: Varies
Effect:
Hope Springs Eternal
Strengthened by the idea of a brighter tomorrow, the howling darkness of the beyond find you a much greater foe. When opposing a supernatural force, spend a fate point to reduce their rolls by 2 shifts for the rest of the scene, so long as that roll was in some way backed by a supernatural power. More than one fate points may be spent on this, but the amount reduced is only -1 per Fate Point after the first.
The Dark Yields -2
Your faith is such that even the wicked quail before you. When facing down a supernatural force, you may treat their toughness as being one step lower. Mythic becomes Supernatural, and Supernatural becomes Inhuman, and Inhuman goes away.


The real meat of this power is the primary effect Hope Springs Eternal, which is intended to act as an equalizer between a True Believer and various monsters and their ever escalating strength/speed powers and casters with their refinements. My primary concern as a point of balance is the interaction between it and Providence. They are intended to work together, but I worry that both together might be too powerful, or even that the basic effect of Hope Springs might be too strong.

The second effect is basically the benefits of soulfire turned in to a more general use faith power. I think I calibrated the refresh cost right, but let me know if I got it wrong so I can change it.

[Belial666]

Hope Springs Eternal
Strengthened by the idea of a brighter tomorrow, the howling darkness of the beyond find you a much greater foe. When opposing a supernatural force, spend a fate point to reduce their rolls by 2 shifts for the rest of the scene, so long as that roll was in some way backed by a supernatural power. More than one fate points may be spent on this, but the amount reduced is only -1 per Fate Point after the first.

There is no way this is anywhere even close to balanced. "All Creatures Are Equal" costs -3, only negates toughness powers, needs a FP per target affected and doesn't actually affect rolls of any kind. This one affects every single power, ever. It effectively functions as a +2 for you or more that lasts for the scene and affects pretty much every roll most enemies will make. Combine it with access to anything that offers free uses of Faith powers and you can turn an enemy's skill of +6 into a +0. For the whole scene. For all skills used with supernatural abilities. Not going to happen. A more acceptable version would be something like this;

Sanctum of Faith [varies]
Description: Your faith is an unshakable bastion against supernatural powers.
Musts: Bless this House
Skills affected: none
Effect: The zone you're currently in has a minimum threshold equal to the points spent in this ability; unless invited, supernatural beings have to leave some of their power behind upon entry. Beings with too little power may not enter at all or might dissolve upon entry, depending on creature type. Bless this House applies to this ability.

[Sanctaphrax]

Providence -2
Description: Faith provides, granting you favor above and beyond simple chance.
Musts: The character must have taken Guide My Hand and Righteousness
Skills affected: Varies
Effect:
Faith moves Mountains: Your faith is strong. When taking this power, you gain get 1 free expenditure of a Fate Point to activate your holy powers. You may take this power multiple times, but the total amount of free expenditures cannot exceed your Conviction rating.

For providence I modified haru's suggestion and focused on the free fate points for holy stuff, effectively turning it in to a form of refinement for true faith powers. I added the conviction cap because I felt it might be abusable in higher refresh games. (granted you'd need to shove 10 refresh in it in order to get 5 uses in most games, but I figure it's better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it)

So you spend 2 Fate Points and get 1? And you can only spend it on True Faith? Seems amazingly pointless.

Weight of Belief -1
Description: The force of your convictions shake the world.
Musts: The character must have taken Guide My Hand.
Skills affected: Conviction
Effect: As long as you can justify it through belief, you may employ Conviction to do Declarations as if it were a Knowledge and Perception skill. This doesn't so much reflect actual knowledge or perception as your belief that things will go as they should, and the favorable outcomes Providence arranges.

Basically Belial's version of Providence as a separate/different power. I thought it was really awesome. 

Looks good.

Grace Against the Dark -2
Description: Mortals who leave the safety of their homes may find themselves buoyed by the knowledge that a strong spirit can make all the difference when facing the unknown terrors of the world.
Musts: The character needs to have taken Righteousness and Holy Touch
Skills affected: Varies
Effect:
Hope Springs Eternal
Strengthened by the idea of a brighter tomorrow, the howling darkness of the beyond find you a much greater foe. When opposing a supernatural force, spend a fate point to reduce their rolls by 2 shifts for the rest of the scene, so long as that roll was in some way backed by a supernatural power. More than one fate points may be spent on this, but the amount reduced is only -1 per Fate Point after the first.
The Dark Yields -2
Your faith is such that even the wicked quail before you. When facing down a supernatural force, you may treat their toughness as being one step lower. Mythic becomes Supernatural, and Supernatural becomes Inhuman, and Inhuman goes away.


The real meat of this power is the primary effect Hope Springs Eternal, which is intended to act as an equalizer between a True Believer and various monsters and their ever escalating strength/speed powers and casters with their refinements. My primary concern as a point of balance is the interaction between it and Providence. They are intended to work together, but I worry that both together might be too powerful, or even that the basic effect of Hope Springs might be too strong.

The second effect is basically the benefits of soulfire turned in to a more general use faith power. I think I calibrated the refresh cost right, but let me know if I got it wrong so I can change it.

I don't feel as strongly as Belial does about this, but I agree that it's too strong.

Sanctum of Faith [varies]
Description: Your faith is an unshakable bastion against supernatural powers.
Musts: Bless this House
Skills affected: none
Effect: The zone you're currently in has a minimum threshold equal to the points spent in this ability; unless invited, supernatural beings have to leave some of their power behind upon entry. Beings with too little power may not enter at all or might dissolve upon entry, depending on creature type. Bless this House applies to this ability.

I don't think the Bless This House interaction is a good idea. If it costs 1 Refresh to boost my threshold by 1, then I shouldn't be able to boost it by 2 by spending 1 Refresh on Bless This House. And I'm not sure how this should interact with creatures that can't cross thresholds at all, or with ranged attacks.

Apart from that, though, it looks pretty good.

Anyway, if you're looking for protective custom Powers you might want to look at Divine Protection, Living Threshold, and Aegis Demon Shield. The former two are on the wiki, the last one is in the EtA character creation thread.

[Haru]

Providence -2
Description: Faith provides, granting you favor above and beyond simple chance.
Musts: The character must have taken Guide My Hand and Righteousness
Skills affected: Varies
Effect:
Faith moves Mountains: Your faith is strong. When taking this power, you gain get 1 free expenditure of a Fate Point to activate your holy powers. You may take this power multiple times, but the total amount of free expenditures cannot exceed your Conviction rating.

For providence I modified haru's suggestion and focused on the free fate points for holy stuff, effectively turning it in to a form of refinement for true faith powers. I added the conviction cap because I felt it might be abusable in higher refresh games. (granted you'd need to shove 10 refresh in it in order to get 5 uses in most games, but I figure it's better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it)

So you spend 2 Fate Points and get 1? And you can only spend it on True Faith? Seems amazingly pointless.

My thoughts exactly. And if it is supposed to be per scene, it becomes a math game again.

I thought my version was pretty much a good balance as refinement for faith, your version doesn't feel like it has much in common with it.

Weight of Belief -1
Description: The force of your convictions shake the world.
Musts: The character must have taken Guide My Hand.
Skills affected: Conviction
Effect: As long as you can justify it through belief, you may employ Conviction to do Declarations as if it were a Knowledge and Perception skill. This doesn't so much reflect actual knowledge or perception as your belief that things will go as they should, and the favorable outcomes Providence arranges.

Like I said before, this looks like a way to do "Faith Manages" without spending Fate points on it. For example, instead of spending a Fate point on "Faith Manages" to replace a Burglary roll to open a door with Conviction, I could make it a Perception roll to say that I see the key lying on the ground. It's just a matter of how you describe what's happening, and you'll never need to spend a Fate point on "Faith Manages" again. That's a bit much for a 1 refresh power.

Grace Against the Dark -2
Description: Mortals who leave the safety of their homes may find themselves buoyed by the knowledge that a strong spirit can make all the difference when facing the unknown terrors of the world.
Musts: The character needs to have taken Righteousness and Holy Touch
Skills affected: Varies
Effect:
Hope Springs Eternal
Strengthened by the idea of a brighter tomorrow, the howling darkness of the beyond find you a much greater foe. When opposing a supernatural force, spend a fate point to reduce their rolls by 2 shifts for the rest of the scene, so long as that roll was in some way backed by a supernatural power. More than one fate points may be spent on this, but the amount reduced is only -1 per Fate Point after the first.
The Dark Yields -2
Your faith is such that even the wicked quail before you. When facing down a supernatural force, you may treat their toughness as being one step lower. Mythic becomes Supernatural, and Supernatural becomes Inhuman, and Inhuman goes away.


The real meat of this power is the primary effect Hope Springs Eternal, which is intended to act as an equalizer between a True Believer and various monsters and their ever escalating strength/speed powers and casters with their refinements. My primary concern as a point of balance is the interaction between it and Providence. They are intended to work together, but I worry that both together might be too powerful, or even that the basic effect of Hope Springs might be too strong.

The second effect is basically the benefits of soulfire turned in to a more general use faith power. I think I calibrated the refresh cost right, but let me know if I got it wrong so I can change it.

Not a Fan. "The Dark Yields" is probably fine, but "Hope Springs Eternal is deeply flawed. It is basically an "I win!" button, and there's already a mechanic for that: compels. And spending more than one Fate point on a compel is already established, as well, it's called escalating, when someone wants to pay off a compel. I think that's a much cleaner way to go than this.

[Arcane]

Along with possible new powers, you could always reskin old supernatural powers to give them a Fatih-based flavor.

Armor of Righteousness (Reskinned Supernatural Toughness)
Description: Your faith in a higher power and service to divine purpose grants you protection against creatures of darkness and malign supernatural powers.
Musts: The character must have taken Guide My Hand.  They must also take the following Catch.
The Catch: Mundane attacks from mortal humans and animals not undertaken due to supernatural influence.  (Anyone can reasonably get access +2; Requires access to specific research material (detailed histories of saints and holy men) +1)
Skills affected: As Superhuman Toughness
Effects: As Superhuman Toughness
Refresh Cost: -1

Theoretically one could also get a stronger version that gave the benefits of Mythic Toughness for a Refresh Cost of -3.

Edit: Clarification - "due to supernatural influence" means supernatural powers directly influencing the mortal human's or animal's mind or body.  A mortal human attacking due to being possessed, under mental control, or having their body manipulated like a puppet by a supernatural creature doesn't satisfy the Catch but a mortal human attacking due to being bribed, intimidated (not Incited) or tricked by a supernatural creature would.

[JayTee]

Belial's version is actually more in line with what I was aiming for. My intention was definitely not to make it so that rolls involving supernatural powers could be reduced down to +0. That's dumb, and a result of bad wording on my part.

The only changes I'd make to Sanctum of Faith is that it wouldn't apply to the whole zone, just to rolls with supernatural powers that interact with the character, and the suppression couldn't reduce the roll below it's base skill level, which would ideally turn it in to an equalizer of sorts. Something like:

Gift of Grace [varies]
Description: You are guided and protected by your faith.
Musts: Guide my Hand, Righteousness
Skills affected: varies
Effect: When making an opposed roll involving the supernatural, you may treat the opposing power as if it were under the suppression effect of a threshold that has a strength equal to the number of Fate Points spent on this ability, up to you Conviction.

Powers that are intended to have reduced effectiveness when interacting with Gift of Grace are Strength, Speed (specifically dodging), Evocation and Thaumaturgy. Evocation and thaumaturgy are not intended to be suppressed in to uselessness, just the crazy levels of power they can throw around with all their refinements. Similarly Speed and Strength can work at full effectiveness when applied to anything other than the character who has Gift of Grace.

Thoughts?

Re: Providence - I really liked the fate point thing, but I did say that I would discard it if it was stupid, and it seems like it really is just that stupid, so I'll go with the original suggestion. 

[Sanctaphrax]

Like I said before, this looks like a way to do "Faith Manages" without spending Fate points on it. For example, instead of spending a Fate point on "Faith Manages" to replace a Burglary roll to open a door with Conviction, I could make it a Perception roll to say that I see the key lying on the ground. It's just a matter of how you describe what's happening, and you'll never need to spend a Fate point on "Faith Manages" again. That's a bit much for a 1 refresh power.

I don't expect this to be a problem. Weight of Providence will just let Conviction do a bit of what Alertness does and a bit of what Scholarship does.

Gift of Grace [varies]
Description: You are guided and protected by your faith.
Musts: Guide my Hand, Righteousness
Skills affected: varies
Effect: When making an opposed roll involving the supernatural, you may treat the opposing power as if it were under the suppression effect of a threshold that has a strength equal to the number of Fate Points spent on this ability, up to you Conviction.

I don't understand how this is meant to work.

[JayTee]

It's mechanically the same as Sanctum of Faith, only focused more narrowly on the character instead of the whole zone.

EDIT: It also can't dissolve spirits or other things that would be affected like that by a threshold. It just evens the odds and gives a fair-er chance.

EDIT: Ignore that. Better explanation: it work the same as Sanctum of Faith, except that  spirits don't dissolve and allies can't take advantage of it. It feels too strong to me if they could (although I'm not exactly the authority when it comes to power balance)

[Sanctaphrax]

That only helps partway, I'm afraid. Still not sure I follow. Can you run me through an example of it in action?

[JayTee]

The two powers function the same way, the only difference between the two is when the threshold effect is applied.

The general rule is that the more something supernatural tries to screw me over or prevent me from doing what I've decided needs to be done, the more likely it is to get hit with the threshold effect.

Using speed powers to dodge my attacks or maneuver against me? Threshold'ed

Using speed powers to run away from me? Not Threshold'ed

Using strength powers to crush me? Threshold'ed

Using strength powers to smash a hole in a wall? Not Threshold'ed

Using magic to affect me negatively, or try to prevent me from doing something? Threshold'ed

Using magic in the general area? Not Threshold'ed.

Other powers like Domination and Incite Emotion would definitely be threshold'ed if they were applied to me, but not others. Glamours would be on a case by case basis, but erring on the side of threshold'ed.

The idea here is to give the sense that the character's god/confidence/faith/ancestor spirits/whatever are giving them unseen support and protection against the supernatural, hence the name "gift of grace". Sanctum of Faith would apply universally to all those situations, and feels a little too overt for how faith powers are presented in the books.

[Belial666]

Having the threshold depend on how many FP/invokes you have at hand is neither balanced nor flavor supported. If someone can negate powers through the power of his faith, then how strong his faith is should be represented and not be entirely dependent on circumstance.


Also do note that each time a creature's catch or similar drawback comes up, they get a FP. If you pay FP against them directly, they get an equal amount too. A power that depends on FP to weaken enemy rolls is self-defeating because the enemy gets as many FP as you spend.

[Sanctaphrax]

The two powers function the same way, the only difference between the two is when the threshold effect is applied.

Pretty sure this is impossible.

Using strength powers to crush me? Threshold'ed

What does this mean?

Also do note that each time a creature's catch or similar drawback comes up, they get a FP. If you pay FP against them directly, they get an equal amount too. A power that depends on FP to weaken enemy rolls is self-defeating because the enemy gets as many FP as you spend.

Not so. You only get FP when your Aspects are compelled, and not every Catch encounter is a Compel.

Also, opponents only get FP spent against them if it's spent on their Aspects.

[Taran]

@JayTee

Why don't you use a power that lets you set up a threshold in an area.

Home is Where I Hang My Hat

Given a little prep, you can set up a threshold anywhere.  There's another custom power that does the same but I prefer this one.(obviously)

I'm not a big fan of instantaneous and portable thresholds.  They're too powerful (and complicated).

If you combine this with a wizard setting up Wards, it can be quite strong.  If your character already has Bless This House, it is even stronger.  Given your conviction, you could set up a threshold withing a 'few moments' if you needed.