Focus Items' bonus

[Leeder]

A single focus item slot, as granted by various Spellcraft powers (page 179), grants a +1 bonus.
For  evocation  focuses,  this  bonus  may  be applied  to  either  the  wizard’s  offensive  power (Conviction)  or  offensive  control  (Discipline) or  defensive  power  (Conviction)  or  defensive control (Discipline).

What do mean offensive and defensive here? I was thinking that offensive bonus applies when you attack with magic, and defensive - when you defend with magic, but one of my players pointed that the maneuvers are not covered by these bonuses at all. Am I right? If I aint, enlighten me, please.

[narphoenix]

Maneuvers can be offensive or defensive. So can blocks.

An offensive maneuver would be something to ease an attack. For example, you might maneuver TRIPPING VINES or YOUR HEAD HAS ENTERED THIN AIR to tag for an attack.

A defensive maneuver would be something that eases a defense, like I'M IN BULLET TIME or CURTAIN OF LIGHTNING.

An offensive block is generally used to block movement, like by making someone's muscles seize up or using air and the electromagnetic force to pin someone on the floor/wall/possibly ceiling.

A defensive block covers things like the shields you're used to.

[Leeder]

But there are a lot of maneuvers, which could be offensive or defensive in equal measure. "Sleep" or "Fog", for example. How about them?

[narphoenix]

But there are a lot of maneuvers, which could be offensive or defensive in equal measure. "Sleep" or "Fog", for example. How about them?

SLEEP would probably straight up be an attack, not a maneuver. Someone falling asleep is a takeout result if they're resisting.

FOG depends. Usually, it would be offensive, used to distract or blind the opponent. But on some occasions, it could be used defensively, to, say, obscure a boat and its wake from hostile Fae in the middle of Lake Michigan. For instance.

[Leeder]

Could you please point me to the rules block, which gives guidelines for such arrangements? The fog example seems to me a weak point. When a wizard is casting the fog, he does not know how others will use it - to distract ot to obscure.

[Taran]

For blocks, it's tricky:
A zone border might be defensive if you're trying to prevent attackers from getting in to your zone.
A zone border might be offensive if you're trying to prevent an enemy from escaping.

Putting a block on someone to hinder their attacks might be offensive magic
Putting a block on yourself to stop incoming attacks would probably be defensive.

Overall I'd say:
If it targets an enemy, and it's a baneful effect it's usually(probably) offensive.
If it targets yourself and it's protective, it's probably defensive.  (some buffs might be offensive, though).

As with Scene aspects...I'm not sure they're either.  Anyone can invoke them.  I could use the fog to hide (defensive) or I could use the fog to sneak up on enemies and ambush them (offensive)...of course, your enemies can do the same.  Overall, it feels more defensive to me.

I'm not sure if 'intent' comes in to play with focus items...magic is such a personal thing, after all...

My wizards always have a zone border rote.  It's specifically designed to keep enemies at bay so I've assigned defensive foci to it.  On the other hand, if my primary intent was to keep enemies from fleeing, I might have assigned offensive foci.  Of course, zone borders affect everyone equally, friends and foes, travelling in either direction...so it's kind of neutral in that way.

Edit:  You know, there may be certain spells where no foci apply.  And I see nothing wrong with that.

[Mr. Death]

Blocks I always treat as defensive.

Maneuvers, I treat depending on what it's affecting. If it's affecting something friendly, it's defensive. If it's affecting something hostile, it's offensive. If it's affecting an inanimate object, then it's offensive if it's breaking it, defensive if it's reinforcing it.

[narphoenix]

Blocks I always treat as defensive.

Maneuvers, I treat depending on what it's affecting. If it's affecting something friendly, it's defensive. If it's affecting something hostile, it's offensive. If it's affecting an inanimate object, then it's offensive if it's breaking it, defensive if it's reinforcing it.

I agree on maneuvers, disagree on blocks. I mean, if you're using a block to hold someone in place while your friend beats the snot out of him, it's an offensive block. Even the RAW uses "offensive block". Unless that's a house rule you have, or something.

[Sanctaphrax]

Could you please point me to the rules block, which gives guidelines for such arrangements?

Pretty sure there is no such rules block. We're on our own, so to speak.

[vultur]

I agree on maneuvers, disagree on blocks. I mean, if you're using a block to hold someone in place while your friend beats the snot out of him, it's an offensive block. Even the RAW uses "offensive block". Unless that's a house rule you have, or something.

I agree.

IMO...

Attacks are always offensive.

Defensive block = replaces a defense roll, or used as armor. E.g. shield spell  EDIT: veils, too
Offensive block = opponent has to overcome the block to do something. Something like when Ferrovax crushes Harry to the ground magically in GP, or when Eb traps Lara in mid-air in TC.

Offensive maneuver = applied to your opponents, or to yourself/allies specifically to boost an attack (something like "flaming sword" or "strength boost")
Defensive maneuver = applied to yourself/allies to help defend

Counterspells are usually defensive, but dispelling somebody else's defensive block might be offensive.

[Haru]

I agree with vultur's assessment, except for counterspells. I think those are always offensive, since you are basically attacking a spell construct. There is no such thing as using counterspells to defend against an incoming magical attack (apart from houserules, of course).

[Leeder]

Oh, I've got it. Thank you all!

[vultur]

I agree with vultur's assessment, except for counterspells. I think those are always offensive, since you are basically attacking a spell construct. There is no such thing as using counterspells to defend against an incoming magical attack (apart from houserules, of course).

You are right. Oops.