What Exactly Is A Freeholding Lord?

[Conor]

Hi folks,

I'm aware of a certain NPC who is a Freeholding Lord in Our World and it lists who signed him in (And I remember same from the novels) but where I'm a bit sketchy is exactly what rights and responsibilities being a Freeholding Lord would grant a character.

Can anyone give any advice or suggestions on this?

Some questions I have:

How is the "territory" of a Freeholding Lord determined? How large is it? Presumably it would be a small section of the city they are based in?

What authority does a Freeholding Lord have?

What responsibilities?


If anyone would like to chime in and chat about this one I'd really appreciate it!

Thanks

[Tedronai]

The 'territory' of a Freeholding Lord is determined by a combination of what they have the power and/or influence to control and what the other members of the Accords are willing to recognize (the latter being significantly but possibly not solely influenced by the former).  The former might be referred to as their 'effective' territory, while the latter could be called their 'official' territory.

A Freeholding Lord has all the authority, or at least most of it, of an Accorded supernatural nation within their territory.  That is to say, they have treaty rights when dealing with members of other supernatural nations, and little else.

A Freeholding Lord is responsible for upholding the Accords among and with respect to his subjects.

[UmbraLux]

How is the "territory" of a Freeholding Lord determined? How large is it? Presumably it would be a small section of the city they are based in?

As Tedronai notes, a freeholding lord's territory is going to be limited to what they can control and protect. 

What authority does a Freeholding Lord have?

What responsibilities?

Have you read Even Hand?  It's a Marcone PoV short story which deals with the Accords and his status as Freeholding Lord.  The basics are fairly simple.  Any other Accord signee / rep needs the lord's permission to act within the lord's territory.  The lord and his men can't kill reps of other lords without provocation and even then will need to pay a wergild / blood price.

[Conor]

Thanks folks, those are really useful responses.

I'll have to pick up Dark and Stormy Knights, I haven't read that one yet!

[Cadd]

All in all, I think it can be summed up along the lines of - Being a Freeholding Lord makes you something like a city-state. Just like Monaco can sit down next to Russia and both be considered sovereign nations, Marcone can sit down next to the Summer Court of the Fae. No one is going to think they are equal in power, but they are entitled to essentially the same respect (and that respect is demanded of him aswell, of course).

[vultur]

All in all, I think it can be summed up along the lines of - Being a Freeholding Lord makes you something like a city-state. Just like Monaco can sit down next to Russia and both be considered sovereign nations, Marcone can sit down next to the Summer Court of the Fae. No one is going to think they are equal in power, but they are entitled to essentially the same respect (and that respect is demanded of him aswell, of course).

Yeah.

I think the main difference between a Freeholding Lord and another nation is that for a Freeholding Lord, only the Lord is given the rights of a signatory. Harry, as a member of the White Council, has rights and responsibilities under the Accords; but Hendricks is just a servant of Marcone's.

This is also probably why Gard needs Harry in SmF -- Donar Vadderung is a Freeholding Lord, rather than Monoc Securities being a signatory nation, so Gard doesn't have the rights of a signatory, while Harry does.

[blackstaff67]

Rules of Hospitality might also apply.  Our group considered making ourselves freeholding lords until someone pointed out the need to offer hospitality to a Vampire of the Red or Black courts.

[Cadd]

Oh yes - rules of hospitality is one of the foremost obligations, and I think quite probably one of the prime reasons less...amoral...individuals might choose to not sign on... They want to be able to choose who they play host to - I sure would!

[narphoenix]

Oh yes - rules of hospitality is one of the foremost obligations, and I think quite probably one of the prime reasons less...amoral...individuals might choose to not sign on... They want to be able to choose who they play host to - I sure would!

Of course, nothing says that you can't hire Jared Kincaid to wait outside your house for when they leave. Letter of the law, not spirit.

[umdshaman]

Two points:

I'm pretty sure the Laws of Hospitality only apply if an invitation was issued. You are not REQUIRED to invite a supernatural entity into your home to parley with them; but if you do, guest rights probably apply.

I'm also pretty sure the Laws of Hospitality aren't actually part of the Accords, but rather old traditions. I realize for many people Grave Perils is going to be a sticking point for this, but as I interpreted it; Bianca's invitation was binding because of the loss of face; not the Accords. Any interaction with the Accords would be because she gave her oath to it in the invitation. Harry, on the other hand, didn't start a war by violating the Laws of Hospitality but rather because he initiated an 'unprovoked' attack on the Red Court (because Susan is not one of the White Council's charges).

[Taran]

Two points:

I'm pretty sure the Laws of Hospitality only apply if an invitation was issued. You are not REQUIRED to invite a supernatural entity into your home to parley with them; but if you do, guest rights probably apply.

I'm also pretty sure the Laws of Hospitality aren't actually part of the Accords, but rather old traditions. I realize for many people Grave Perils is going to be a sticking point for this, but as I interpreted it; Bianca's invitation was binding because of the loss of face; not the Accords. Any interaction with the Accords would be because you gave her oath to it in the invitation. Harry, on the other hand, didn't start a war by violating the Laws of Hospitality but rather because he initiated an 'unprovoked' attack on the Red Court (because Susan is not one of the White Council's charges).

I agree with all these points.  I'm trying to remember what happened in Grave Peril.  It's been so long.

[PirateJack]

This is a basic summary of the ball scene and the events afterwards. Some minor points may be missing, but I think I got everything.

(click to show/hide)

The White Council received an invitation from a new noble of the Red Court (Bianca) and Harry was the closest representative so he was the one obligated to turn up. He could have refused, losing a bit of face for the White Council at the same time, but circumstances with the spirit torture spell forced him to. So when Harry and Michael turned up to the ball they were included in the Laws of Hospitality as well as under the Accords (one rule of which is that you cannot specifically target a person at an Accords meeting, which is why Bianca had all of the drinks spiked rather than just Harry's). Any hostile action taken against Harry or his plus one would have broken the Accords and allowed the White Council to seek redress.

Unfortunately, Susan had found the invitation and had a copy made, which allowed her to enter the ball without any kind of law or tradition protecting her. Since she was effectively an intruder it made her fair play for all the assorted monsters at the ball. Harry naturally rebelled against this and tried to protect her, which would have constituted taking a hostile action against the hosts of the ball, thus violating the Accords (Bianca could have demanded his head in recompense for this).

Thomas then decided that he wanted to leave the party alive and threw Susan into the throng. Harry reached for fire and fire answered, possibly casting his Death Curse at the same time, got revived by Michael and then saved from smoke inhalation by the Leanansidhe. They headed back to Harry's place with Thomas turning up a time later with Amoracchius.

Harry + Co decide to rescue Susan through the Nevernever, with Harry having to dodge Lea by eating some kind of deadly toadstool. He gets a year and a day of freedom before Lea can try anything against him again. Things go wrong and Harry ends up captured by Bianca and left in a room with Justine + the newly turned Susan. He couldn't be eaten by the other vampires because of the mushroom poisoning, but Susan is about ready to make her first feed and become a true Red Court Vampire.

The Nightmare strikes again, possessing Justine just to tell them that he's waiting for Harry to fall asleep. Harry concocts a plan to let him defeat the Nightmare using his own ghost and eats the Nightmare in his dreamscape, absorbing its power and the power it stole from him earlier in the novel. Susan or Justine give him CPR to restart his heart. He then retrieves his stuff from a nearby room (Bob included) and confronts Duke Ortega, Bianca, a bunch of vampires and some mortal gunmen. Bianca offers to let this all blow over if she can keep Susan as a form of revenge for making Bianca too weak to avoid killing her mortal plaything back in Storm Front.

Harry takes issue with this idea. War is declared and Harry gives a bunch of power to the hundreds of ghosts. They kill Bianca, cause the building to implode and Harry escapes with Justine, Bianca and Bob.