Harry Naming Things

[Rasins]

This question has been asked of Jim and the impression I've always gotten is that Harry naming things isn't really a power so much as it's just human.

Mankind has always wanted to name things (just look at the "star registry" ads on late-night TV).  When we name things we kind of control them, at least in our own heads.

I think Harry names things so that he can identify them for himself, when he doesn't know what else to call them.  That and when he just want's to become more familiar with them.

[Quantus]

This line below from Uriel is what makes many of us suspect otherwise.

Names have tremendous power, Dresden. Yet mortals toss them left and right as though they were toys. It’s like watching infants play with hand grenades sometimes.” The ghost of a smile touched his face as he glanced at me. “Some more so than others.

If that isnt a blatant Cluebat I dont know what is.

I'm pretty sure that harry hasn't got any such ability. It would be pointless, and more the the point, it would undermine the importance of names in the world. Sure, harry's habit of nicknaming things has certainly had metaphysical impact, but that, i think, is because names always have metaphysical impact, and in every case i can think of, the creature or thing impacted has accepted the name; see Ivy, lash, demonreach. But for those to be the result of some sort of naming ability undercuts the importance of names in themselves. And, for Ivy and Lash, it does something else: it undercuts the importance of the kindness harry shows. Everyone calls ivy the archive, but harry refuses to treat her in any way but as a human; and similarly, harry shows understanding, even friendship, to Lash, whom others would simply abhor. That makes them accept the names he gives them, and it changes them. For it to be some sort of super-naming ability renders that kindness and humanness moot, and, i'd claim, weakens the story.

I dont see how Harry having an unusual capacity for Naming would undercut any of that, anymore than his being a wizard or a Starborn undercuts his being a hero.  Regardless though, I think the fear Uriel demonstrated confirms that it is not something that has to be Accepted by the one being (re)Named.  Unless said person happens to be a Mortal, in which case they seem to have to actually agree to nearly everything; but that appears to be a exception rather than the rule. 

[Rasins]

Quantus - I guess my point is that Harry doesn't have any SPECIAL or MYSTICAL ability to name things.  We all have it and it's part of our nature to want to label things.

[Rwun]

This line below from Uriel is what makes many of us suspect otherwise.
"Names have tremendous power, Dresden. Yet mortals toss them left and right as though they were toys. It’s like watching infants play with hand grenades sometimes.” The ghost of a smile touched his face as he glanced at me. “Some more so than others."
If that isnt a blatant Cluebat I dont know what is.

That... seems an awful lot like that bit where Uriel is talking about exercizing free will: all mortals can do it, but most don't.

I think that Harry is exceptional not because he can Name things/people, but because he does name them.

Then again, if we're talking about outsiders, all bets are off.  Naming them is totally one way that the whole starborn ball of noodles can manifest.

[Quantus]

Quantus - I guess my point is that Harry doesn't have any SPECIAL or MYSTICAL ability to name things.  We all have it and it's part of our nature to want to label things.

I get that, I was just presenting the counter argument since I dont agree but several others seem to both agree with you and not understand why other do not. 

Granted Ive never seen an instance of Jim being asked this question, and so cannot gauge any impressions on the response.

[snuffulupagus]

That... seems an awful lot like that bit where Uriel is talking about exercizing free will: all mortals can do it, but most don't.

I think that Harry is exceptional not because he can Name things/people, but because he does name them.

Then again, if we're talking about outsiders, all bets are off.  Naming them is totally one way that the whole starborn ball of noodles can manifest.

Perhaps it's related to the idea behind Mantles/Masks. Give something a new name along with new expectations as to the personality behind it, and by using that name the being expresses some of those traits.

Concerning Uriel, he doesn't really directly interact with many humans. Perhaps that could directly give Harry more influence over him with regard to naming. Alternatively, Harry could have more influence indirectly by spreading the use of the new name after their meeting which given Harry's influence could result in the new name being used by many people.

[Serack]

Bump, I might be adding this to the DFRC.  I miss the one I built long ago.

[Mira]

  It all runs together at the moment, I've been rereading bits and pieces of all the books.  I seem to recall Harry saying something about the power of names and of naming things.  He didn't say he had a "special" power where this is concerned per say..  However he is fond of doing it, mostly nick names, but in the case of the Archive and the Creature on the island, he gave them both a sense of "self" because he named them..   Before Harry named her, Ivy was just a vessel for the Archive, now she is a little girl named Ivy, who is also the Archive.. The same goes for the old Creature...  It was okay to be Demonreach, but..

(click to show/hide)

He liked being called Alfred even more, because Demonreach didn't distinguish him from the island, with the name Alfred, he also now has a sense of "self."

[robertltux]

i would think that giving some a name and Giving Something a NAME are different things altogether.

before Harry gave her the NAME Ivy she was just the meat that is wrapped around The Archive.

Now i would bet that Harry could build a garden themed Circle and use a cutting of ivy to track down IVY.

[ballplayer72]

That... seems an awful lot like that bit where Uriel is talking about exercizing free will: all mortals can do it, but most don't.

I think that Harry is exceptional not because he can Name things/people, but because he does name them.

Then again, if we're talking about outsiders, all bets are off.  Naming them is totally one way that the whole starborn ball of noodles can manifest.

Aren't some of the DR sleepers called something along the lines of "things with no names"?   
Perhaps if he names them he can use that as a lever against them?

[Quantus]

Aren't some of the DR sleepers called something along the lines of "things with no names"?   
Perhaps if he names them he can use that as a lever against them?

"Nameless Things" according to Demonreach's understanding of Human speech, but I think he means that literally, yes. 

[Aegnoralkarin]

My headcanon has Wizards as Namers and Shapers; Harry's just well above the norm in ability to Name stuff, while not being the sharpest Shaper in the strongbox.

[IakAzaq]

I don't think that Harry has any special skills in naming other than the fact is that he DOES name things. Most of the wizards are so staunch and classical on how they act, and with the power of names, that they just don't try to rename things. Harry, who is a young wizard and impetuous, doesn't have the moral qualms against renaming something. He gives things a sense of self, as in IVY, or takes power away from something, like Lasch. I think any other wizard could do this if they truly thought they could. 

[Mira]

I don't think that Harry has any special skills in naming other than the fact is that he DOES name things. Most of the wizards are so staunch and classical on how they act, and with the power of names, that they just don't try to rename things. Harry, who is a young wizard and impetuous, doesn't have the moral qualms against renaming something. He gives things a sense of self, as in IVY, or takes power away from something, like Lasch. I think any other wizard could do this if they truly thought they could.

  I agree with this, he is one part compassion and one part smart ass.  I also think he sometimes names things to make them less scary least he be intimidated by a monster that should make him wet his pants.

[Serack]

I ment to move this before the autolock, and here it locked on us.  Hopefully it doesn't relock tonight we shall see.