Old archived comments on the subject:-SerackQuote from: Snowleopard on January 20, 2011, 01:40:30 PM
It sounds like whatever the other person "sees" in Harry might be directly tied into what or who they are.
Michael trusts Harry but Denton is scared out of his mind by what he sees.
Quote from: jimbutcher
What it shows you is /true/. But it isn't necessarily /all/.
For instance, a 'gaze could show you that a man was self-disciplined, sober, highly organized, dedicated to his principles, and that he loved dogs, and all of that would be /true/. But it /doesn't/ tell you /everything/ about Adolf Hitler.
Granted, a soulgaze of Hitler would probably have given off a big vibe of either "crazy" or "ruthless" too. They tend to give you a pretty good core sample of the individual in question. However, every wizard gets things a little bit differently than any other, in terms of how the soulgaze is perceived. Not every wizard sees things in symbols and allegory, the way Harry does. There's a whole spectrum of different "filters," I suppose, of how the basic natures of others are perceived.
As for misinterpreting what they perceive, or putting their own preconceptions on their interpretations? Please. EVERYONE does that, wizard or not. It's part of being human.
Jim
Quote from: jimbutcher
Not only would the Western-raised wizard and Eastern-raised wizard perceive things according to the cultural biases and subjective experiences, they might not even perceive them with the same /senses/.
The Third Sight is different for everyone, subjective, and inherently slanted towards ones own experiences and background. So while two wizards might look on some totally-gone, bloodthirsty warlock and see a bloodthirsty warlock, they might see it in very different ways.
Maybe Harry looks on him and sees some Hannibal-Lectery figure crouched on the floor grinning and soaked in blood. But maybe Ancient Mai looks on him and sees a bare, twisted white tree in the center of an unbroken field of white snow, representative of the individual's loss of spirit and humanity. And maybe Rodriguez looks at him and hears some kind of hideous music that accompanies the individual and makes the hair on the back of Carlos' neck stand up. Maybe Klaus the Toymaker looks at them and sees that his head is covered in cracks and flaws, and that underneath the parts where the flesh looks chipped away, something rotten and horrible is underneath. Maybe Listens-to-Wind looks on the warlock and smells something rotted and vile.
It's way different for each wizard, and it's why even though soulgazes and third sight can be used as evidence in, for example, warlock trials, there is also room for argument and interpretation--that's how Ebenezar defended Dresden, for example. He claimed that he Saw more than just "murdering warlock."
Plus, it isn't flawless. I mean, if a wizard looks at someone who has just suffered some kind of horrible physical or emotional injury, he gets a much different picture of that person than if he sees them a week sooner, or a year later. If a wizard looks on someone who is in a towering rage at the moment, it's going to have an effect on what is Seen. Maybe not an enormous effect, true, but at times even a little bit of difference in shading can change the overall picture. Oh, plus if the /Wizard/ is in a radically altered state of mind, it can shade things differently, too.
Ultimately, the Sight is something that is best relied upon for making one's own decisions, for supporting one's intuitions and observations--as long as one remembers that while it is always true, it isn't always completely correct. Circumstance can, at tmes, effect what is Seen.
Jim
Since Serack thinks the sight and soulgaze is the same thing, I think he will like this quote from GP page 342 paperback version:
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"When a mortal looks on something with the Sight, really looks, as a wizard may, the memories of what he sees are indelibly imprinted on hi,. And when a wizard looks into a person's eyes, it's just another way of using the Sight. A two-way use of it, because the person you look at gets to peer back at you, too.
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Ah, but is it a process of pressure and change, or is it a process of polish and refinement? One could argue that the events that "changed" you in actuality only revealed a truer facet of your soul than had previously been perceiveable--that those events only changed you inasmuch as a rough diamond is changed by a master jeweler's tools. The diamond doesn't become an emerald--it just becomes a more beautiful and quinessential diamond.
(Just Devil's Advocating here, for the most part, and throwing that thought out.)
In any case, it may just be possible for a person to change enough for a soulgaze to reveal something else--but it would have to be an utterly incredible kind of change. Something along the lines of the billionaire executive who, after a near-death experience, gives all his worldly goods to charity, leaves home in his pajamas, and takes up a life of underwater basket-weaving and meditation. And even that seems a little mild to me, thinking of it.
Anyway, it'd take a truly epic change of heart and mind--to the point where you would practically *be* a whole different person, and not just a person who happens to be you with a lot more life experience to inform his outlook.
(And, in fact, there's all sorts of theories about people who this happens to after a near-death experience, regarding "walk-in" souls who come and inhabit a person near death, changing them and becoming a kind of inner Yoda to the "native" soul.)
All of the above, of course, is more or less a discussion of angels dancing on the heads of pins, but it's fun. Smiley
Jim
source:
http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php/topic,977.msg18481.html#msg18481Quote from: Magnus
Hmm, Harry and Thomas Mom, might have figured out how to affect a soulgaze considering, she appears to them both in their soulgaze in Blood Rites.
Quote from: Heartsonycgr on January 20, 2011, 02:57:57 PM
I like the way Murph characterizes Harry in ....never really thought before how this would effect his social interactions on a day to day basis, since not looking someone in the eye while talking to them is a major social no no. Maybe he's gotten good at looking at the bridge of their noses, the space between their eyebrows, etc., but one can really tell when there is direct eye contact or not. He must be very disconcerting to socialize with for people who don't know about the soulgaze...
Quote from: Darkshore on January 20, 2011, 05:10:51 PM
I'm sure that whatever they do see inside Harry would be pretty dang intense. It mean hells bells look what he has gone through, not to mention the taint left on him from using Magic to kill someone. Harry is a lot like Thomas in my eyes with the fact that he has a "demon" with him always. It's came out in a few choice scenes but so far Harry's darker side has been dormant for awhile
