The Appeal Of High Power Games

[narphoenix]

I actually had a thread to try to gather the ladder adjectives. Sanctaphrax will find it, though.

[Hick Jr]

Hick Jr proposed the following ladder:

+18-Heroic
+17-Godlike
+16-Flawless
+15-Stylish
+14-Awesome
+13-Marvelous
+12-Crazy
+11-Superlative
+10-Ludicrous
+9-Amazing

A-hem.

This was at least partially inspired by Devil May Cry.

[Taran]

Not to completely derail this thread, but I'd just redo the whole ladder from scratch.  Things like Legendary and Epic should be up there with Heroic and Godlike.  I'd also put Godlike as the highest difficulty.

[vultur]

I was actually originally drawn to higher power games because it allows you to do stuff on the scale of what's happening in the recent books.

[Hick Jr]

Not to completely derail this thread, but I'd just redo the whole ladder from scratch.  Things like Legendary and Epic should be up there with Heroic and Godlike.  I'd also put Godlike as the highest difficulty.

I get asked why Heroic is above Godlike a lot. The answer is simple. Heroes impress me a lot more than gods. Harry is more impressive than Odin, to me.

A complete redo would probably require a little too much relearning for most of us. I'd be willing to take a crack at it, because it's basically just ten minutes with a thesaurus, but still.

[Sanctaphrax]

Looks like Hick beat me to posting the ladder.

Since it seems relevant: if you know who started a thread, you can find that thread by clicking on the Show Posts link in their profile and opening up the Topics section. Here's your Topics page. You'll notice that the ladder thread is clearly displayed there.

The search function might be rubbish, but the forum has some other functions that can substitute for it quite well.

I was actually originally drawn to higher power games because it allows you to do stuff on the scale of what's happening in the recent books.

That's more what I was expecting people to say. The books have gotten pretty out of hand, power-wise.

[Locnil]

That's more what I was expecting people to say. The books have gotten pretty out of hand, power-wise.

What do you mean by that?


Also, for my part, I prefer high-power games because more power means more options, and more options makes for a better story, at least in the context of a RPG. A co-operative RPG, to boot.

[Sanctaphrax]

The books have gone from supernatural detective stuff (which was already pretty high-level by DFRPG standards) to preventing multiple apocalypses and killing gods. And Harry has acquired all kinds of upgrades along the way.

[Magicpockets]

His Refresh sort of doubled after becoming Winter Knight.

[Locnil]

The books have gone from supernatural detective stuff (which was already pretty high-level by DFRPG standards) to preventing multiple apocalypses and killing gods. And Harry has acquired all kinds of upgrades along the way.

I see.

[molten_dragon]

For me, that's the point of playing a low refresh character.  You don't try to play a character that's going to be exactly what you want.  You play a character that's going to BECOME exactly what you want. 

I'm okay with starting with a lower refresh and a character who will grow into what I want him to be, as long as the growth happens at a decent pace.  If you're using the pace of receiving refresh points that the rules suggest, it's pretty slow, especially in a group like ours that only plays for about 3 hours every two weeks.  If we ever want to get a chance to be more powerful, we have to either start higher, or advance faster.

[Hick Jr]

I try to focus more on the concept than the actual mechanics. For example-

Concept- Half-Demon Ouranomancer (space control for those not versed in latin roots or greek myth) who uses a sword to focus his abilities.

Build at Chest Deep:
Incite Effect (Ouranomancy, with Weapons)(Range, Physical, Area) [-4]
IoP: Space Sword [+2]
       Spatial Control: Adds Potent, Selective, and Defensive trappings to Incite Effect. [-3]
Inhuman Toughness [-2]
Inhuman Recovery [-2]
The Catch [+3] is holy objects.

Build at Snorkeling (13 Refresh):
Incite Effect (Ouranomancy, with Weapons)(Range, Physical, Area, Potent, Selective, Defensive) [-7]
IoP: Space Sword [+2]
     Warpcutter: As All Creatures are Equal Before God. [-3]
Inhuman Toughness [-2]
Inhuman Recovery [-2]
The Catch [+3] is holy objects.
Numerical Prodigy [-3]

Build at In A Submarine:
Incite Effect (Ouranomancy/Chronomancy, with Weapons)(Range, Physical, Potent, Defensive, Area, Selective, Persistent) [-8]
IoP: Space Sword [+2]
     Warpcutter: As All Creatures are Equal Before God. [-3]
Teleportation (Rapid) [-3]
Supernatural Toughness [-4]
Inhuman Recovery [-2]
The Catch [+3] is holy objects.
Precognition [-2]
Numerical Prodigy [-3]


I'd be happy to play any of those. I keep at least ten concepts like that ("half-demon ouranomancer, empathomancer, half-metal elemental, emissary of Pestilence, astromancer dragon scion", etc) just floating around in a word doc on my computer in case i happen to need speedy inspiration.

Edit: It's possible I wasn't clear, so i'll try to make my point here- All of the above builds are capable of basically the same thing (ouranomancy, which is the concept), but their only real difference is how it's done or how mechanically powerful it is. The enjoyment for me comes out of playing a powerful concept, not a powerful build.

[Silverblaze]

People have mentioned most of the point/counterpoint to this.

I agree that large numbers are the same as small numbers. - Sanctaphrax

I also agree that you need 2 to 5 more refresh than a basic character to customize it properly with stunts or powers ( to go beyond the template). - Mr. Death

Both points are valid.

I think the issue is less being uber - and more "Will I ever get there if I don't start there?"

I see a point in growing a character.  It is one of my favorite things to do.  However, I see stagnation as a problem if you are too low power.  You never grow...you want to do the fun stuff from the start.  If growth is fast or at least steady.  This is less of an issue.

So for a one shot game or a PbP game...I'd favor high level.  In a game that gets played regularly with room to grow.  I'd favor low power.

[Taran]

People have mentioned most of the point/counterpoint to this.

I agree that large numbers are the same as small numbers. - Sanctaphrax

I also agree that you need 2 to 5 more refresh than a basic character to customize it properly with stunts or powers ( to go beyond the template). - Mr. Death

Both points are valid.

I think the issue is less being uber - and more "Will I ever get there if I don't start there?"

I see a point in growing a character.  It is one of my favorite things to do.  However, I see stagnation as a problem if you are too low power.  You never grow...you want to do the fun stuff from the start.  If growth is fast or at least steady.  This is less of an issue.

So for a one shot game or a PbP game...I'd favor high level.  In a game that gets played regularly with room to grow.  I'd favor low power.

I think this is the point I was trying to get across.  Silverblaze just said it better.

[Sanctaphrax]

Oh, hey, Silverblaze. Long time no see.

What have you been up to?