The Black Staff

[Sanctaphrax]

Thank you Sancta. You seem to be able to pull those out of thin air at the drop of a hat.

You're very welcome.

The trick is usually to have a good memory and a knack for searching the web, but in this case the links were pre-prepared. That's what the Law Talk thread is for, after all.

The staff looks pretty good and I'll add it to the various lists if you don't object.

I could see Sacrificial Lamb being abusable, since it lets you draw on two stress tracks in the same scene, but I'd be willing to allow it if I was GMing. At least on a trial basis.

Good points....

...but I think the Laws really are supposed to be that scary.

I don't know what the writers intended, but I think there's a problem if people are so afraid of Lawbreaker that they won't even entertain the possibility that they just broke a Law.

Since Lawbreaking is effectively instant death for many characters, people will tie themselves into knots to justify not taking it. And that leads to arguments of the non-fun kind.

[Hick Jr]

You know, i'd be willing to writeup a Blackstaff sponsored magic. An interesting idea for a BBEG is a former Blackstaff who retained the staff's power and is now training a group of wizardly assassins called The Blackstaffs. And they become their own power under the Unseelie Accords, and try to steal the original Blackstaff from the White Council. Actually, that's not a terrible character concept for a wizard- an escaped apprentice of that Order, who wields this magic that gives him such a leg up on other wizards.

anyway, here's the Sponsored Magic

BLACKSTAFF MAGIC
Description:You wield the fell power of the Blackstaff, the black ops man of the White Council.
Sponsor:The Blackstaff itself.
Agenda:To break the Laws of Magic- namely to kill, to transform, to invade the thoughts of others, to enthrall, to use necromancy, to swim against the flow of time, and to look Outside the Outer Gates.
Evocation: Any evocation that breaks one of the Seven Laws.
Thaumaturgy:Any ritual that breaks one of the Seven Laws.
Evothaum:Any ritual that breaks one of the Laws can be used at evocation's speed and methods.
Extra Benefits:If you possess Blackstaff Magic, you cannot gain a Lawbreaker power. Instead, you can spend a Fate Point and gain a +2 bonus to control and complexity/power to spells that break a specific Law for that scene.

[bobjob]

The staff looks pretty good and I'll add it to the various lists if you don't object.

I could see Sacrificial Lamb being abusable, since it lets you draw on two stress tracks in the same scene, but I'd be willing to allow it if I was GMing. At least on a trial basis.

Thank you By all means, go ahead.

As for Sacrificial Lamb, I just modeled the power after the Varied Techniques ability of Supernatural Martial Arts from the Resource Wiki, which one of my players uses. It is likewise a -1 Refresh add on to the existing power. I don't necessarily see it as abuse because in a prolonged conflict in which you cannot use any boosts or foci (assuming you are trying to avoid taking a Lawbreaker by using just the Sponsored Magic house rule I made) then you'll really end up limiting your survivability options as you continuously fill up not only your physical but mental track (assuming that other things are not trying to hurt you as well and you don't flub a roll and take backlash). Plus since I am using this as the shadow staff that Ebenezzar used in Changes, the physical stress seems to work with the black tendrils going into his arm doing who knows what to him. Until that is revealed officially, I kind of like this as an idea.

You know, i'd be willing to writeup a Blackstaff sponsored magic. An interesting idea for a BBEG is a former Blackstaff who retained the staff's power and is now training a group of wizardly assassins called The Blackstaffs. And they become their own power under the Unseelie Accords, and try to steal the original Blackstaff from the White Council. Actually, that's not a terrible character concept for a wizard- an escaped apprentice of that Order, who wields this magic that gives him such a leg up on other wizards.

I had a similar idea for a game of all wizards called The Black Staff. Set in an earlier time (or even a much later time) in which the office of the Black Staff has to take on additional help, essentially becoming the wizard version of MI6 with a license to kill (all for the greater good).

[Locnil]

Having to spend Refresh on Lawbreaker if you break a Law is a problem for a few reasons. In no particular order...

-It removes the possibility of a Lawbreaking storyline for most spellcasters, since most casters only have 1 Refresh. If they break a Law, you can't play them any more.

-It handicaps people who play Harry-like characters. Harry's First Lawbreaker is a total waste of Refresh, and it makes him weaker than a Submerged character is supposed to be.

-It makes the Laws too scary. We see a lot of debates about what the Laws are here in the RPG section of the forum. That used to puzzle me, since the Laws aren't actually an RPG thing. But since having your Refresh taken away is so scary, the Lawbreaker rules make people treat the Laws quasi-religiously.

-It encourages people to use the Laws as a club with which to punish "unbalanced" actions. This is a bad idea and the laws don't work well for that.

A non-free Power that lets you dodge the Laws is an outgrowth of the mandatory-Power-purchase rule, and that's bad.

The first two point I agree with. But like vultur, I think the third point is working as intended (or at least a beneficial side effect of its design), though, yeah, it can be frustrating. And I'd like you to clarify your fourth point, if you don't mind.

[vultur]

I don't know what the writers intended, but I think there's a problem if people are so afraid of Lawbreaker that they won't even entertain the possibility that they just broke a Law.

Since Lawbreaking is effectively instant death for many characters, people will tie themselves into knots to justify not taking it. And that leads to arguments of the non-fun kind.

I do see your point.

What I meant was that in setting, it seems like most spellcasters (who aren't already evil) are pretty terrified of Lawbreaking. It usually makes you a horrible monster, and while redemption is possible, it seems to be pretty rare (Harry is pretty exceptional in a lot of ways, and Molly kept backsliding or at least dancing on the very edge

(click to show/hide)

until becoming Winter Lady gave her other problems

so it's not clear to me she ever really was successfully 'redeemed') and only at the very beginning - some people just seem to become monsters period.

Although it doesn't really make sense to me that a lot of the stuff she did, like checking to see if Luccio was mentally influenced, really should be evil or corrupting at all - but that's another argument...)

[bobjob]

I certainly see the point too.

You really only have two kinds of lawbreakers. Those who break the laws but do not know what the laws are at first (Harry, Molly, etc). And those who purposely break the laws for greater power and probably knew what they were doing when they did it (Kemmler, Corpsetaker, etc). Both get the mechanical benefit via RAW with the Lawbreaker stunt (and the aspect change) that makes it easier for them to break that law again. What most people are worried and as Sancta mentioned, will tie themselves into knots to justify not taking is the mechanical stuff; the loss of their refresh (potentially transforming them into NPCs by RAW) and the choppy choppy killy killy of the Wardens after what is essentially a mock trial.

Nobody wants to invest in a character that is taken away from them because they do what every D&D Wizard has ever done. Nobody really wants to be chased by the uncaring wizards who would rather chop off their heads instead of rehabilitate them. There is no Azkaban in Dresden. There is only finding out what is behind Uriel's door number 2.

[Sanctaphrax]

As for Sacrificial Lamb, I just modeled the power after the Varied Techniques ability of Supernatural Martial Arts from the Resource Wiki, which one of my players uses. It is likewise a -1 Refresh add on to the existing power...

Yeah, it's probably fine. But I'm a bit paranoid when it comes to spellcasting-related Powers.

...I'd like you to clarify your fourth point, if you don't mind.

Often when there's a spell-related balance issue, like mental evocation attacks, people suggest using Lawbreaker to solve the problem. Basically, the idea is to threaten people into avoiding the unbalanced spell type.

It never really works. Partly because the laws only matter against humans, partly because you often have to invoke torturous justifications to make the spell type universally law-breaker-y, and partly because if the spell is a balance problem it won't stop being one when somebody spends Refresh on a bonus to performing it better. But mostly because threatening your players is a really poor way to deal with a rules problem.

I do see your point.

What I meant was that in setting, it seems like most spellcasters (who aren't already evil) are pretty terrified of Lawbreaking.

Scaring the characters is fine by me. The problem is that Lawbreaker scares the players.

Really, the Refresh loss means little to the characters. They don't even know what Refresh is. The characters are scared of having their Aspects changed until they become evil monsters, and of getting killed by the Wardens.

If you remove the Refresh loss then you can keep the characters scared without scaring the players and driving them to silly behaviour.

[bobjob]

Hmm, so how would you rework Lawbreaker to take away that refresh loss? Take away the refresh and the mechanical benefit and you gain an extra Aspect or even a change to a magically related aspect?

[Sanctaphrax]

I just make the Power non-mandatory. You can still buy it if you want, though. And you do have to change your Aspects if you break the Laws.

[bobjob]

Hmm... for those that are worried about the story elements behind breaking the laws (y'know, the execution)... if a Warden spoke to them would they know necessarily about any crime? I would go with No. There does seem to be some way to tell (a soul gaze, maybe sussing out an aspect if you are suspicious enough, and getting close to one of Ancient Mai's ward hounds), but I wouldn't think that unless for some very odd reason they have a strange sense that lets them sniff out that dark magic that they would even automatically know something had happened.

[bobjob]

Used the Atropos' Cane last night in my game, used by a wizard character they know who is not part of the White Council. The two steady characters in the game are physical power houses (at 16 refresh after a little over 2 years of playing fairly steadily) who do not bat an eye at a Loup Garou type analog monster (because they can at least hold it off physically, if not harm it). One wizard shows up at the same refresh as them and they go running for the hills. It's actually kind of satisfying.

[PirateJack]

Hmm... for those that are worried about the story elements behind breaking the laws (y'know, the execution)... if a Warden spoke to them would they know necessarily about any crime? I would go with No. There does seem to be some way to tell (a soul gaze, maybe sussing out an aspect if you are suspicious enough, and getting close to one of Ancient Mai's ward hounds), but I wouldn't think that unless for some very odd reason they have a strange sense that lets them sniff out that dark magic that they would even automatically know something had happened.

From what I remember there are a few ways to spot the stain of Black Magic.

• The Sight (not the most reliable of methods).
• Soulgaze (similar to the Sight but more in depth).
• Being near a Warlock casting magic (probably a successful Lore check).
• Chronomancy and/or Hindsight.
• Wardhounds
• Mundane detective work.
• Being friends with the Gatekeeper.