Modeling intellectus?

[Hick Jr]

Exactly how are people modeling Intellectus, beyond a Supernatural Sense? The particular character i'm writing has it regarding biology and anatomy, even of supernatural life-forms. I was thinking of a Martial Artist-esque thing where he can make Declarations regarding people's bodies, or something like the Doctor stunt. Besides those, i'd appreciate some input on where I should go with this.

[Sanctaphrax]

I think those options all sound good. Declarations, a bonus to knowledge rolls, a Supernatural Sense...any of those could work.

Though now that I think about it, Intellectus is supposed to be a big deal. Maybe take all three options together, then.

Actually, combining those options might make for a decent Intellectus custom Power.

[Hick Jr]

Hmm. Good idea. Something like this?

INTELLECTUS [-?]
Description:In one specific sphere of knowledge or influence, you are all-knowing. Any and all information within that sphere is available to you at all times.
Skills Affected:Lore
Effects:
All-Knowing: You can make assessments and declarations regarding your sphere of influence using your Lore+1.
In addition, you automatically succeed as if you had rolled a +4 on any knowledge roll regarding your sphere of influence.

[Todjaeger]

The first question which comes to mind is what actually has Intellectus?

From the novels, certain ancient genus loci might develop a limited Intellectus confined to knowledge and awareness within the confines of their location.  Otherwise certain powerful entities, specifically some at the top of the scale of the supernatural heavyweights (archangels, Mother Summer & Mother Winter...) have it.

The reason I bring that up, is that seems to suggest that Intellectus is really more a plot level device, as opposed to a supernatural power.  I certainly wouldn't let a player develop or have Intellectus, though I might allow them to bind themselves to an entity which has a limited form of it.

Cold Days spoiler below:

(click to show/hide)

As we've seen from the novels, the entity Demonreach is actually a sentient or semi-sentient spell construct built into the Wards which guard the supernatural prison beneath the island at the southern end of Lake Michigan.

 

One of the things which should be appearing in the upcoming Paranet Papers are rules for creating golems or constructs like the Wardhounds.  Based off the hints I've gotten so far, I'm working on adapting them to allow for the creation of a "Jarvis"-like programmed intelligence which could be built into a Ward.

-Cheers 

[Hick Jr]

The character in question is the person currently bearing the mantle of one of the Horsemen of the Apocalypse. Specifically, Pestilence. Because of their Biblical origin, i'm currently writing the DV Horsemen as demi-angelic beings, with Pestilence specifically being the Angel of Life. He's the embodiment of nasty things like bacterium and vermin because both of those outnumber every other type of life by over a billion to one. So, in essence, the character is bound to a larger supernatural entity in the same way that Harry is bound to Demonreach.

[Sanctaphrax]

Harry has intellectus, so obviously it's a PC-appropriate ability.

Especially since it's really not that powerful when it's that limited. I'd much rather have Evocation than complete knowledge of Demonreach's geography.

Hmm. Good idea. Something like this?

INTELLECTUS [-?]
Description:In one specific sphere of knowledge or influence, you are all-knowing. Any and all information within that sphere is available to you at all times.
Skills Affected:Lore
Effects:
All-Knowing: You can make assessments and declarations regarding your sphere of influence using your Lore+1.
In addition, you automatically succeed as if you had rolled a +4 on any knowledge roll regarding your sphere of influence.

It's a start.

I'm not sure I'd want to link to knowledge skills like that, though. And I think it might deserve a little more oomph.

I'll post my take later today or tomorrow.

[Todjaeger]

Harry has intellectus, so obviously it's a PC-appropriate ability.

Especially since it's really not that powerful when it's that limited. I'd much rather have Evocation than complete knowledge of Demonreach's geography.

It's a start.

I'm not sure I'd want to link to knowledge skills like that, though. And I think it might deserve a little more oomph.

I'll post my take later today or tomorrow.

Actually Harry doesn't have Intellectus

Another Cold Days spoiler

(click to show/hide)

Towards the later part of Cold Ways, after the Winter and Summer Ladies have triggered some of the defenses on Demonreach, Harry is outside a large circle (the one that disintegrates anything not 'part' of the island when it passes through) with the Summer and Winter Ladies supported by the coterie of companions projecting energy at the entity Demonreach within the circle, Harry has no connection to Demonreach and can't sense what's going on on the island like he normally can.  Also if one re-reads the early part of the book, where Harry goes back to the island to get a sense of what Molly meant about Demonreach about to go Boom and he brings Bob with him, the entity had to 'dumb down' what Demonreach was to Bob so that Bob could sort of understand, and then be able to try and explain what everything was to Harry in a way Harry could understand.  With the explanation Morgan gave in Turn Coat, Intellectus essentially pure knowledge about NN topic if/when that topic is considered.  IIRC the example from the novel was an entity with Intellectus being presented with a calculus or maybe an algrebra problem.  The entity would consider the problem and know the answer without knowing or needing to know the steps required to compute the answer.  If Harry was the one that actually had the Intellectus, as soon as he considered what the Circles, Wards and everything was, he would know what they were, he also wouldn't have been able to be cut off from the knowledge by being on the outside of a Circle that the Demonreach entity was inside.

Lastly, when Harry casts the sanctum invocation in Turn Coat and asks Morgan questions about some of the after effects since he's know getting all sorts of useful (albeit minor) information about the island and Morgan first mentions the possibility of Intellectus, Morgan makes a comment to the effect that the genus loci must be absolutely ancient to have developed Intellectus.  Again implying that it isn't Harry that has it, but the entity itself.

-Cheers

[narphoenix]

Harry has intellectus, so obviously it's a PC-appropriate ability.

Especially since it's really not that powerful when it's that limited. I'd much rather have Evocation than complete knowledge of Demonreach's geography.

It's a start.

I'm not sure I'd want to link to knowledge skills like that, though. And I think it might deserve a little more oomph.

I'll post my take later today or tomorrow.

Harry's Intellectus specifically is, I think, best modeled by the Demense power.

[Sanctaphrax]

I don't think Demesne fits too well. Demesne lets you warp the physical structure of your domain to create Aspects or to attack. Harry can't really change the shape of Demonreach much.

Though he did pull one neat trick in Turn Coat, IIRC. Moving a bunch of water around to destabilize an area or something. That could have been a Demesne roll, or an application of Thaumaturgy, or a social roll to manipulate the guardian spirit. Or maybe something else.

Actually Harry doesn't have Intellectus...

Sure he does. But it only applies to the geographical details of Demonreach, not to stuff like the prison beneath it. And he gets it from the guardian spirit, which he can be cut off from by a circle.

[narphoenix]

Home Turf. You have an immense amount of control over the features of your demesne; the “local reality” bends to your will. You automatically succeed at any declarations about
the physical form of your demesne, and in combat you can roll Discipline to place scene d aspects in the demesne. You can even roll your Discipline as a physical attack against intruders, using the nature of the Nevernever
to harm opponents.

The "automatic declaration success" could easily be narratively justified as Intellectus. He does attack, as you pointed out, which Demense lets you do. Shoe fits.

[Sanctaphrax]

No it doesn't.

That trick wasn't an attack. Might have been a maneuver and a tag.

And Harry can't casually turn Demonreach into a mountain made of solid gold, which he could do if he had Demesne. He can't beat people to death in personal combat using Demonreach's dirt and trees and stuff as his weapon, either.

You might be able to hack Demesne to get around those issues, but I don't see much point.

Demesne's mechanics don't offer anything especially interesting to work with. And depending on how you read them they might offer you an infinite supply of free tags. So it'd be easier to hack Martial Artist, or to start from scratch.

[narphoenix]

If you can annihilate an entire army with a thought, it's pretty safe to say that you're attacking. And Harry doesn't need to turn Demonreach into solid gold to manuever/attack. He can just say "Ooh look. A nail on the ground. Goodbye, Fix."

[Sanctaphrax]

Wiping out armies doesn't necessarily require an attack. In fact, I'd expect maneuvers to be used for that sort of thing more often.

And regardless of what Harry needs to do, he clearly can't control Demonreach as effectively as he could with Demesne.

That aside, I promised a take on Intellectus. It's loosely based on Hick Jr's. Here goes:

INTELLECTUS [-varies]
Description: In one specific sphere, you are all-knowing. Any and all information within that sphere is available to you at all times; when you think of a question, you immediately know the answer.
Musts: You must select a sphere of knowledge when you take this Power. Your choice affects the cost of this Power. Something mostly-useless, like the geography of one island that the game occasionally visits, gives a cost of 1 Refresh. Something that's on the narrow side for a stunt, like how to hurt someone, gives a cost of 2 Refresh. Something that's on the broad side for a stunt, like human biology and anatomy, gives a cost of 3 Refresh. Something broad, like earth and stone, gives a cost of 4 Refresh. Extremely broad spheres, like everything ever written down, can give higher costs.
Skills Affected: None
Effects:
All-Knowing. When determining your knowledge or awareness of things within your sphere, you receive the following benefits. Your skills are treated as though they were at your skill cap. You always roll +4. You suffer no penalty when attempting to know or notice things that have been hidden, even if there's no mundane way for anyone to discover those things in your situation. You never need a library, and you can perform research just by asking yourself mental questions. If you don't immediately know or notice something it's just because you didn't ask yourself the right question.
Knowing Every Detail. You may make Declarations related to your sphere with your skill cap +2. These Declarations are not associated with any skill, and absolutely every fact or detail within your sphere is fair game.

I'm pretty happy with Knowing Every Detail, but I'm not thrilled with the Power as a whole. Seems too wordy, and rather clunky.

Maybe I should just make All-Knowing into difficulty-ignoring auto-success.

Opinions and suggestions would be appreciated. And if someone can do better, I encourage them to do so.

[Hick Jr]

I might treat "auto-success, treat as if +4 was rolled and it super succeeds" as a -1 upgrade.

[Quantus]

FWIW there do exist other, more targeted/limited instances of Intellectus int he books.  Specifically, Shagnasty is supposed to have a sort of Intellectus when it comes to torture:

Q:  How and why did the skinwalker take Thomas?
A:  Thomas was distracted by Binder’s minions and the skinwalker saw the opportunity.  It knew that Thomas is important to Harry, but not necessarily that Thomas is Harry’s brother.  The skinwalker exists in more than one dimension at a time and it has its own kind of intellectus when it comes to evil – it knows what will hurt you and scare you, even though it may not really know why.  It took Thomas because he knew it would hurt and scare Harry.  How it tortured Thomas wasn’t part of any direction it was given to turn Thomas back into a monster, it was done because the skinwalker knew what would hurt Thomas and torment him, more than just physically.