Meta concept of how the DF will/is playing out [CD, MM and BAT Spoilers]

[the neurovore of Zur-En-Aargh]

haven't had one in 15 years, don't miss it

Heh. Beat you by two years.

[knnn]

That sounds like an assumption that the size of the NN has to extend in the same directions as size in Earthly space.  For which I am also not seeing any support.

I think that at the very least, there has to be some sort of topological 1-1 mapping.  After all, I think we have evidence that you can open a portal to the RW anywhere in the NN.

[Serack]

I think that at the very least, there has to be some sort of topological 1-1 mapping.  After all, I think we have evidence that you can open a portal to the RW anywhere in the NN.

In White Night it was said that a portal opened in the same spot by two different people could end up going to different places in the NN though.

[asetti]

I really need to watch all of the Buffy seasons.  Apparently Jim's idea of a Mirror Mirror story is strongly influenced by an episode in one of the later seasons.

P.S.  I didn't even have a TV for the 4 years between 2000 and 2003

There are actually two epidsodes you need to see.  One is "the Wish" and the other is "Dopeldanger".  The first is a reality where buffy never came to Sunnydale.  The other is where Vamp Willow gets pulled out of that reality into the "real" one....and she is "kinda gay" :-O.

[knnn]

In White Night it was said that a portal opened in the same spot by two different people could end up going to different places in the NN though.

I don't recall that exact quote, but I thought it had to do with different people opening the portal in a slightly different position.  1mm in RW == worlds apart in the NN.

Note also that this is somewhat contradicted by Harry in TC, re: the back of the storage unit, or the fact that Harry manages to follow his mother's NN travel instructions to a T.

[Ms Duck]

I think that at the very least, there has to be some sort of topological 1-1 mapping.  After all, I think we have evidence that you can open a portal to the RW anywhere in the NN.

The volume of the NN in three dimensions exists out to lunar orbit; in CD its implied it's 11 dimensional. That's a lot of damn room.

as magic comes from life, and the NN is supported by magic, I think the idea that it ever extended farther than the moon is a bit dubious.

[Cozarkian]

I really need to watch all of the Buffy seasons.  Apparently Jim's idea of a Mirror Mirror story is strongly influenced by an episode in one of the later seasons.

P.S.  I didn't even have a TV for the 4 years between 2000 and 2003

The alternate universe story in Buffy is the classic "how the world would look if "x" didn't happen" story. Specifically, a scorned women has a wish that "Buffy never came to Sunnydale" (Harry never came to Chicago) granted, and the episode explores the effects that has on the various characters lives - most importantly that Buffy wasn't there to stop the big bad Master from Season 1. Interestingly, the events in the alternate universe play out in accordance with an important prophecy from the real world, with a different ultimate outcome, largely because Mirror Buffy (who is still the Slayer and still trying to save the world) is more of a ruthless warrior like the Morgan or the Merlin than a compassionate savior with loyal friends.

If he wanted to parallel that story, he'd have to change a defining moment in Harry's life and see what happens. For example, Harry might not have killed Justin or maybe he was never orphaned in the first place, which means Harry might never have stopped the Three Eye Drug and Victor Sells could be the kingpin of a magical drug cartel ruling Chicago.

[knnn]

The volume of the NN in three dimensions exists out to lunar orbit; in CD its implied it's 11 dimensional.

Re-reading CD now, but haven't come across that reference yet.  Could you point it out?

[peregrine]

The volume of the NN in three dimensions exists out to lunar orbit; in CD its implied it's 11 dimensional. That's a lot of damn room.

as magic comes from life, and the NN is supported by magic, I think the idea that it ever extended farther than the moon is a bit dubious.

Who says that there's only life on Earth?  All we know is that you can't get further than there in the NN.  Doesn't mean that that's all there is.

[Serack]

I don't recall that exact quote, but I thought it had to do with different people opening the portal in a slightly different position.  1mm in RW == worlds apart in the NN.

Note also that this is somewhat contradicted by Harry in TC, re: the back of the storage unit, or the fact that Harry manages to follow his mother's NN travel instructions to a T.

the reason given for why it would open elsewhere was different.

Gates to the spirit world paid absolutely no attention to trivial things like geography - they obeyed laws of imagination, intention, patterned thought.  Even if Cowl was back there, he wouldn't be able to open a gate to the same place as mine, because he didn't think like me, feel like me, or share my intent and purpose.

[wizard nelson]

as magic comes from life, and the NN is supported by magic, I think the idea that it ever extended farther than the moon is a bit dubious.

There's just a bit too much human self importance in that statement for a duck to be making Realistically We know there are planets that can support life out there. So in a Verse created with pseudo-science why wouldn't this be true?

[Ms Duck]

There's just a bit too much human self importance in that statement for a duck to be making Realistically We know there are planets that can support life out there. So in a Verse created with pseudo-science why wouldn't this be true?

Who says that there's only life on Earth?  All we know is that you can't get further than there in the NN.  Doesn't mean that that's all there is.

it's not and it's not. re read the woj again; the NN orbits worlds other than earth in other realities.

- for example, the canim, the marat, the people of the sun'..

 And for all we know; there are other NN's.

and we know there is intelligent life from outside the NN, the vord came from there.

the problem, imo, is getting from one 'magical space' to another; without magic, you have to use tech.. like the vord did.

while FTL may exist in the Jim verse, there is no evidence yet that it does; even his most advanced species uses, by star trek standards, very primitive technology.


so to some up: our NN contains within it all the possible earths that might exist on the spectrum of free will, including ones in which human life never even evolved.

ga zillions and ga zillions and ga zillions of worlds

there are other alien worlds out there, that are not in our NN, as they are to far away.

(the vord homeworld)

and probably ga zi;llions and ga zillions more

while its possible those worlds may have ,magic and NNs of their own, Jim has not said so yet that I know of.

[peregrine]

Even in this reality, I don't buy that somehow the NN is only an infinitesimal fraction of our actual universe.  I mean, that's not even one AU.  That's not even the area of the Sun in 3D space.  Much less the areas that humanity has expanded to via satellite and probe.

My understanding of (admittedly, a half remembered quote) is that Earth to the Moon is about as far as you can travel, but not as far as there is, in the same way that about 40 Km is the highest we can fly.  There's PLENTY more out there, we just can't get to it right now.

[Ms Duck]

Even in this reality, I don't buy that somehow the NN is only an infinitesimal fraction of our actual universe.  I mean, that's not even one AU.  That's not even the area of the Sun in 3D space.  Much less the areas that humanity has expanded to via satellite and probe.

My understanding of (admittedly, a half remembered quote) is that Earth to the Moon is about as far as you can travel, but not as far as there is, in the same way that about 40 Km is the highest we can fly.  There's PLENTY more out there, we just can't get to it right now.

I think you seriously underestimate how big that space is. Even just in 3D, its 237,924,270,443,818,600 cubic KM...

that oh about 220,300 earths

gee, is there enough room ??

and it has way more than 3 dimensions. (Harry suggested 11 in CD, based on modern string theory, but he could be wrong)

[peregrine]

And yet, still only a miniscule fraction of a fraction of a fraction of even our solar system, much less the universe as we know it.

Of course, if they can unfold those extra dimensions into something more akin to 3D space, then that's all fairly pointless, as a straight line can involve curves and other wacky spacetime shenanigans to make the distances whatever anyone wants.