Author Topic: Can enchanted items boost stats?  (Read 3886 times)

Offline Darth_Tubgirl

  • Lurker
  • Posts: 2
    • View Profile
Can enchanted items boost stats?
« on: July 01, 2013, 04:27:50 AM »
I'm making a wizard and I was going to give him a enchanted item set of magic boots that boosts his athletics. Is this legal? I don't wanna make something to OP either.

Offline Haru

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 5520
  • Mentally unstable like a fox.
    • View Profile
Re: Can enchanted items boost stats?
« Reply #1 on: July 01, 2013, 04:46:07 AM »
You can not have an enchanted item that just gives you +5 to athletics or something like that. But there are a number of ways you can still get what you want:

Maneuver Spell:
You can create an enchanted item that has a maneuver spell stored in it, so when you use the item, it creates the aspect "like the wind" on your character, and then you tag that aspect for +2 on an athletics roll. It should be an aspect that is appropriate to the task at hand.

Skill Replacement Spell:
Instead of creating an aspect, you can let the spell do all the work. So you make an enchanted item with a stored effect and don't use your skill at all. For example, you make jumping boots with a 5 shift effect, and when you want to jump from rooftop to rooftop, which is a difficulty of 5. Your athletics is 3, so you think you probably won't make it on your own, so you activate the boots, and the 5 shift effect from the boots is enough to get over the 5 shift chasm. If you'd needed 6 shifts, the boots would be useless, since they don't have enough power.

Item of Power:
This is the big one. If your character concept is built around a wizard that boosts his speed with magical items, you might want to do it big. Instead of enchanted items, you buy the "inhuman speed" power with refresh and add the "Item of Power" limitation to it. From the story point of view, that's just like any of his enchanted items, he's just able to use it a lot more often than others. It's only the mechanics that are changed.
“Do you not know that a man is not dead while his name is still spoken?”
― Terry Pratchett, Going Postal

Offline Darth_Tubgirl

  • Lurker
  • Posts: 2
    • View Profile
Re: Can enchanted items boost stats?
« Reply #2 on: July 01, 2013, 05:02:31 AM »
thank you

Offline McNulty

  • Participant
  • *
  • Posts: 41
    • View Profile
Re: Can enchanted items boost stats?
« Reply #3 on: July 02, 2013, 11:04:33 AM »
You can not have an enchanted item that just gives you +5 to athletics or something like that. But there are a number of ways you can still get what you want:

This is something that recently came up in our game as well.. can you point to an entry in the RAW that covers this?

Item of Power:
This is the big one. If your character concept is built around a wizard that boosts his speed with magical items, you might want to do it big. Instead of enchanted items, you buy the "inhuman speed" power with refresh and add the "Item of Power" limitation to it.

Can IoP give +X to skills? Let's say for Discipline or Charisma.

Offline Haru

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 5520
  • Mentally unstable like a fox.
    • View Profile
Re: Can enchanted items boost stats?
« Reply #4 on: July 02, 2013, 11:25:27 AM »
This is something that recently came up in our game as well.. can you point to an entry in the RAW that covers this?
I don't think there is, but that's pretty much why you can't. By the book, there are exactly 2 way to get a bonus to a skill roll, and that's by invoking aspects when you use the skill or taking stunts for a specific application of a skill.

Quote
Can IoP give +X to skills? Let's say for Discipline or Charisma.
Yes and no. An Item of Power is a Rule that grants you a rebate on the cost of your powers that are attached to them, because there is always the risk of having it taken away from you.

That said, powers can give you all kinds of bonuses, Discipline and Charisma (though there is no such skill, but there is presence and rapport) included. If you look closely, my proposition above didn't say "take an IoP that gives you +5 to athletics", it said "take an IoP with inhuman speed", which is a power that (among other things) increases your athletics. If you attach other powers to the Item of Power, then you will get other benefits from it, naturally. This could also include stunts.
“Do you not know that a man is not dead while his name is still spoken?”
― Terry Pratchett, Going Postal

Offline McNulty

  • Participant
  • *
  • Posts: 41
    • View Profile
Re: Can enchanted items boost stats?
« Reply #5 on: July 02, 2013, 12:18:21 PM »
By the book, there are exactly 2 way to get a bonus to a skill roll, and that's by invoking aspects when you use the skill or taking stunts for a specific application of a skill.

Yes, that certainly implies this. It's probably mechanics-breaking if enchanted items grants straight bonuses, but would be nice if the rules 
were more explicit.

If you look closely, my proposition above didn't say "take an IoP that gives you +5 to athletics", it said "take an IoP with inhuman speed", which is a power that (among other things) increases your athletics.

Yeah I got that and that's why I chose those other skills (meant discipline and presence of course) as there's no ready made power that effects them. But I guess you could come up with a new power, like "Inhuman Resolve" that increases Discipline in certain situations..?

I've noticed that it's a bit tricky for a newbie to find the balance in new powers & stunts, but I guess only way to learn is playing the game. ;)

Offline InFerrumVeritas

  • Conversationalist
  • **
  • Posts: 813
    • View Profile
Re: Can enchanted items boost stats?
« Reply #6 on: July 02, 2013, 12:45:23 PM »
Any power which gives a bonus to Discipline should not apply to spellcasting.  If it did, there would be virtually no reason (mechanically) for every spellcaster not to take it if they have the refresh, at the exclusion of virtually any other power.  Possibly including spellcasting (like Thaumaturgy). 

Offline Joelok314

  • Participant
  • *
  • Posts: 33
  • When it is darkest, the light shines the brightest
    • View Profile
Re: Can enchanted items boost stats?
« Reply #7 on: July 02, 2013, 12:48:29 PM »
Yes, that certainly implies this. It's probably mechanics-breaking if enchanted items grants straight bonuses, but would be nice if the rules 
were more explicit.

It does give you a good rule of thumb, "Nearly any effect within the range of thaumaturgy or evocation is allowed (though evocation tends to be easier because the amount of power involved is usually comparatively small)". So, you would just follow the guidelines in spellcasting rules.
A man once told me death smiles at us all. All a man can do is smile back.

Do you think a man can change his destiny?
I think a man does what he can, until his destiny is revealed to him.

May the best day of your past, be the worst day of your future.

Offline McNulty

  • Participant
  • *
  • Posts: 41
    • View Profile
Re: Can enchanted items boost stats?
« Reply #8 on: July 02, 2013, 12:52:01 PM »
It does give you a good rule of thumb, "Nearly any effect within the range of thaumaturgy or evocation is allowed (though evocation tends to be easier because the amount of power involved is usually comparatively small)".

That is a good rule of thumb indeed. ;)

Offline Haru

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 5520
  • Mentally unstable like a fox.
    • View Profile
Re: Can enchanted items boost stats?
« Reply #9 on: July 02, 2013, 01:26:14 PM »
Any power which gives a bonus to Discipline should not apply to spellcasting.  If it did, there would be virtually no reason (mechanically) for every spellcaster not to take it if they have the refresh, at the exclusion of virtually any other power.  Possibly including spellcasting (like Thaumaturgy).
Well, there's refinement for that. But I would be very careful in putting it on an Item of Power. Refinement already has a built in Item of Power with focus items and enchanted items, so that would be sort of double dipping.

Yeah I got that and that's why I chose those other skills (meant discipline and presence of course) as there's no ready made power that effects them. But I guess you could come up with a new power, like "Inhuman Resolve" that increases Discipline in certain situations..?

I've noticed that it's a bit tricky for a newbie to find the balance in new powers & stunts, but I guess only way to learn is playing the game. ;)
You can take a look at the custom power master list, it's flying around here somewhere. There are a lot of custom powers that have been discussed extensively.
The rule of thumb for powers is, that they are roughly worth 2 stunts.

Joelok314 is right, there are certain things spells can do, and they are all outlined in the book.
“Do you not know that a man is not dead while his name is still spoken?”
― Terry Pratchett, Going Postal

Offline InFerrumVeritas

  • Conversationalist
  • **
  • Posts: 813
    • View Profile
Re: Can enchanted items boost stats?
« Reply #10 on: July 02, 2013, 01:38:36 PM »
Well, there's refinement for that. But I would be very careful in putting it on an Item of Power. Refinement already has a built in Item of Power with focus items and enchanted items, so that would be sort of double dipping.
You can take a look at the custom power master list, it's flying around here somewhere. There are a lot of custom powers that have been discussed extensively.
The rule of thumb for powers is, that they are roughly worth 2 stunts.

Joelok314 is right, there are certain things spells can do, and they are all outlined in the book.

Oh, I know.  I meant other than refinement.

Offline Taran

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 9863
    • View Profile
    • Chip
Re: Can enchanted items boost stats?
« Reply #11 on: July 02, 2013, 03:31:21 PM »
This is a slightly "off-topic" question regarding enchanted items:

What kind of action is it to use one?  Are they like contingencies that are triggered and therefore take up no action, or do they require a regular action?

I assume those that require targeting and attacking would be an action, but what about those that "boost" (skill replace)alertness.  Could I use it to boost my initiative before combat starts?  Could I have a discipline skill replacement item and use it to control a spell I am casting?

Offline InFerrumVeritas

  • Conversationalist
  • **
  • Posts: 813
    • View Profile
Re: Can enchanted items boost stats?
« Reply #12 on: July 02, 2013, 06:43:41 PM »
The rules don't specify.  Personally, I see using the item as an action where the effect happens immediately.  So I would not make it two separate actions for "use the potion" and "perform skill."  I think, in general, the entire item's effect happens during the turn it was used (unless its specifically designed not to).

Offline Taran

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 9863
    • View Profile
    • Chip
Re: Can enchanted items boost stats?
« Reply #13 on: July 02, 2013, 06:59:29 PM »
So would it be fair to say that it is equal to the action it is designed to replace/enhance?

A block in response to an attack would be reflexive (like dodge)
A skill replacement for alertness for initiative would be reflexive (initiative roll)
A pre-set Fire attack would be an attack (main action)
A pre-set block/armour put up in anticipation to attack (main action)
A skill replacement item done as part of another action...like athletics to sprint (main action)

Offline Troy

  • Conversationalist
  • **
  • Posts: 145
    • View Profile
Re: Can enchanted items boost stats?
« Reply #14 on: July 02, 2013, 07:15:38 PM »
I have a link bookmarked that deals with this topic. This is from back in the day when they were first writing the game and telling everyone how things were going to work.

http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php?topic=36700.0
Ragnarok:NYC
Come play a game in the Dresdenverse with us!
Find us on Skype! Contact LongLostTroy