Question...

[narphoenix]

Ok, here's a question for you: how much would a power that enables spellcasters to cast evocations up to Conviction in power without any stress cost? It clearly would not be for PC use, but we've seen people doing something along those lines, such as Titania's/Mab's extended battle and Ivy at the aquarium.

[Haru]

If you don't look at them as evocations too much and more along the lines of what they actually do, it's probably easier to price them.

Anything defensive would be toughness, attacking can be done with breath weapons (or a modified version of it, maybe from the powers list). You could do it with temporary powers, but since NPCs usually don't have fate points, you can buy them in advance, either as full powers or as Modular Powers and attach them to human form with the condition that they need to cast a spell in order to activate those powers.

Seems to be the easiest way to do things like that, and I really like the "take powers to represent spells that you can easily do" approach.

[ReaderAt2046]

On the same general topic as this, what do you think of this stunt?

Numinous Endurance (Conviction): You can call on more and deeper magic than average. Add 2 stress boxes to your mental stress track, which may be used only to absorb casting stress and/or backlash.

If this is OP, what about a version that only gives one extra stress box?

[Haru]

Hmm, adding stress boxes could really throw the curve. They get proportionally better at what they do, while their increased number gives you even more to work with. If you already have 4 stress boxes, which is likely, if you take a stunt like this, you are going to get a 5 and 6 shift stress box, which is 11 stress total, or more than the rest of your stress track can take.
I like the "you get an additional mild consequence you can use for casting" stunt, because it is more in line with what a stunt can do, and it doesn't scale out of proportion.

If you want additional casting stress, you might be better off with refinement anyway. You get 4 enchanted item slots for it, which are basically 4 additional spells you can cast. Or 7, if you create the item that way. Granted, you are limited in what it can do, but you don't have to pay stress either.

[Sanctaphrax]

Ok, here's a question for you: how much would a power that enables spellcasters to cast evocations up to Conviction in power without any stress cost? It clearly would not be for PC use, but we've seen people doing something along those lines, such as Titania's/Mab's extended battle and Ivy at the aquarium.

Hard to say.

For some spellcasters that's pretty similar to just removing the stress cost from Evocation. After all, you don't need to take any power specializations or foci.

Maybe 3 Refresh?

On the same general topic as this, what do you think of this stunt?

Numinous Endurance (Conviction): You can call on more and deeper magic than average. Add 2 stress boxes to your mental stress track, which may be used only to absorb casting stress and/or backlash.

If this is OP, what about a version that only gives one extra stress box?

It seems too strong to me. I'd rather use a Power that adds 1 box that you can use for anything or a Stunt that gives 2 mild consequences for spellcasting.

[Wordmaker]

As an alternative, I once raised this issue and referred to times when Harry would bring up a shield spell before a fight, but still have enough stress left to maintain the spell during the fight.

The advice I got, straight from Fred, was to treat the start of a given conflict as the start of a new scene, so that the wizard's stress track cleared once the fighting started.

Expanding on this, and using the often-overlooked rules that, once conflict begins, you set out what teams everyone works on (ie: a group of 3 PCs against 4 NPCs, 2 PCs take on 1 NPC each, while the third takes on 2 himself), you can make the case that once a particular pair of sides have finished fighting, that's the end of one whole conflict, and when the characters start fighting someone else, that's a separate conflict beginning.

For example, say in the course of a climactic battle scene, your PCs are fighting a large force of Red Court Vampires, trying to stop them performing a powerful ritual.

The PCs arrive at the scene and fight their way past the outer guards. That's one conflict, leaving some PCs with some stress boxes filled, but no serious injuries.

Next, they come to a group of elite guards led by an important Red Court Noble. That's a new conflict, and the PCs' stress track clears. At the end of this, they've each taken a mild consequence and some stress.

After that, they finally reach the core ritualists and dive into battle to stop them. This is another new conflict, so their stress tracks clear and only the mild consequences remain.

Using this method, you can set up large-scale conflicts without having to worry about your PCs, wizards or not, using up all their stress and being unable to take part.

[Mr. Death]

The one thing about that, though, is the book outright says that rapid-fire fights like that might mean your stress stays with you as opposed to clearing. I understand the logic, but at the same time, it kind of reduces the overall cost of magic.

One thing I have proposed, to answer narphoenix's question in another way, is to make it so that magic spells cast at half the caster's conviction (rounded down) wouldn't cost stress. That gives you the benefit of longevity (facing a room full of mooks? Mow'em down with Weapon:1 or 2 kinetic blasts and stay fresh), but with a tangible cost in the form of an upper limit to prevent abuse.

[Wordmaker]

I'm still inclined, for my own games, to let these count as separate conflicts, except in cases where the same people are involved. The example in YS is a fight that turns into a car chase, so if you were fighting someone who got into a car and tried to drive away, I'd count that as the same conflict.

Otherwise, I don't think the rules adequately reflect how characters in the books go from one stage in a fight to the next without dropping down dead from taking so much stress.

A good example actually is Dead Beat. Towards the end Harry goes quickly from one conflict to the next, without any rest. First Cassius and the resulting torture and breaking free of the cuffs, then fighting Corpsetaker, then Morgan, and finally off to face down Cowl. He just doesn't have the stress boxes (no-one does!) to churn out that much magic and take that much of a beating and stay on his feet.

[Joelok314]

It would really depend on the time between the conflicts. In the example you gave from Dead Beat, it could be argued that Harry had a chance to "Catch his Breath" between the fight with Cassius and when he got to the fight near the campus.

Also note that he really didn't throw much magic after getting to the campus. He mainly used his staff to fight off the ghosts (with a minor use of magic to infuse it) and his gun. Then, in the main event with the darkhallow, I think he only used his a shield once (don't have the book handy, so can't confirm that). The majority of his fighting was handled by "Tiny". those fights. So, it could also be argued that he was still down stress tracks.

[Cadd]

I think one of the main examples of two consecutive conflicts with stress cleared between them is the WN fights in the Raith Deeps.
First the duel, then the super-ghouls. It's pretty clear that there's a stress-wipe between them, given how much magic is thrown around.

[PirateJack]

I think one of the main examples of two consecutive conflicts with stress cleared between them is the WN fights in the Raith Deeps.
First the duel, then the super-ghouls. It's pretty clear that there's a stress-wipe between them, given how much magic is thrown around.

I don't know. I think Harry took a few mild mental consequences to fuel his magic at some points. The vulcanomancy especially probably took a moderate consequence out of him, which would have cleared his stress track for the rest of the fight.

[Wordmaker]

The problem there is that Harry also takes repeated physical consequences, so does he have room to take mental ones as well?

[Tedronai]

Clearly he has undocumented stunts allowing him to take additional punishment.

[PirateJack]

Agreed. By the time of Changes he probably has the stunt that gives him +2 mild mental consequences.

[Wordmaker]

That's a possible explanation, all right.