Author Topic: POV's and whatnot  (Read 9204 times)

Offline Quantus

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Re: POV's and whatnot
« Reply #15 on: June 25, 2013, 07:25:58 PM »
Unexpectedly, I discovered that the new Iron Druid novel released today switches 1st person POV's for certain chapters. 



While Im not against the idea of switching the POV's in a first person story, the general objection people are having about being able to do it well in a Short Story does make sense.  To do it well you are in many ways doubling the amount of development you need to cram in there, and for a Short Story you are already fighting an uphill battle in the Concise storytelling arena, so it is going to be extra levels of challenging. 
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Offline Carnifex:Pacifex

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Re: POV's and whatnot
« Reply #16 on: June 25, 2013, 07:53:32 PM »
Im loving this feedback and discussion, and that red-flag list had me scared until I saw I (thank God) avoided them.
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Offline LeeringCorpse

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Re: POV's and whatnot
« Reply #17 on: June 25, 2013, 10:24:17 PM »
I guess I should look at writing blogs that discuss the dos and do nots. Thank you both, you have gone a long way in allowing me make connections with writing and what I do know with some fluency, visual arts.

Red flags seem to be “trite but true” options that a writer’s mind fist goes to. The dream scene, the prologue, those are the sort of things that occur first as they are simple and easily come to mind as a way to get content into the story. A novice writer will stop there, thinking that will be a good option for them. But a good writer would probably continue asking the question of “what is the best way to say what I want,” or, “how can I take the thought farther.”

I have to say I made the mistake of settling on one of the “trite but true” options. Okay, Okay, I had three red flags going on in my story, a Prolog, a dream sequence and two points-of-views. I know laugh all you want, I’m used to it.

What you two said to me made me tear my story down, and start building it back up, and right now, it is the stronger for it. I am still having two points of view however. I don’t think I can get around that, as it is a story of two people and what they do and sacrifice for each other, all under a back drop of civil war, duty, revenge and betrayal.

Offline The Deposed King

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Re: POV's and whatnot
« Reply #18 on: June 26, 2013, 01:57:10 AM »
Don't let anyone stop you or get you down leeringcorpse.  If you love it when you write it, even if you have to revise it, other people are going to like also.


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Offline LeeringCorpse

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Re: POV's and whatnot
« Reply #19 on: June 26, 2013, 03:54:51 AM »
I couldn’t agree more D.K.

I’m just glad I asked that question. The responses let me see one of the mistakes I was making that led to some of those red flags. I was saying “Hey, this would work,” and going with that idea, but what I need to be saying is, “Hey, this might work, but what else can I do,” and weigh those ideas and go with the best one for the circumstances.

I have to say, after I did that I started back up from scratch and the page and a half I have just written reads better then any of the 15 pages I already did. That isn’t saying much, mind you, as I’m not exactly Wordsworth strolling through a shady glen here. Me trying to be eloquent is more like pulling steel needles through my cheeks.

LOL, but at least I can say I’m having fun trying to tell a story.  ;D

Thanks all

Offline Anei

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Re: POV's and whatnot
« Reply #20 on: July 09, 2013, 10:26:50 PM »
Does anyone have any opinions about switching 1st person POVs between completed works? ie short stories from different characters' perspectives that are all part of a cohesive story arc. Does anyone know of any works that pull this off, either as a series of short stories or novels?

Offline Quantus

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Re: POV's and whatnot
« Reply #21 on: July 10, 2013, 08:19:14 PM »
Off-hand the animorph novels I read as a kid did that, they came out each month (thanks to ghost writers) and each book (there were like 50 of them before the end) rotated between the POV of the 5-6 main characters, with the occasional special issue that would alternate each chapter.  It worked well in that instance, but I think a big reason it was able to pull it off was that it had sooo many books in the series before the end, and they came out very often.  This way you could cover the POV of the whole ensemble, and each would get several books.   If you were talking about a classic trilogy that had a different 1st POV for each book, that would be a little harder to balance, and you probably wouldnt get a chance to return to the POV's.
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Offline Anei

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Re: POV's and whatnot
« Reply #22 on: July 10, 2013, 09:46:34 PM »
I'm thinking a little larger-scale than a trilogy, more like a serial. But I don't know if I can produce quickly enough to make it enjoyable. Maybe I should write a few and hoard them...

Offline Wordmaker

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Re: POV's and whatnot
« Reply #23 on: July 10, 2013, 10:01:46 PM »
One book a year is perfectly doable and appropriate for a series.

Offline The Deposed King

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Re: POV's and whatnot
« Reply #24 on: July 11, 2013, 03:34:18 AM »
One book a year is perfectly doable and appropriate for a series.

I would quibble with this.  To my mind your statement would be true if:

1) you are working for a publisher

2) writing is a part time job

3) writing is just something you do for fun and to see if you are any good/can make some money

However the successful indie guys I've been watching.  They all write a book every 3-4 months without fail.  Go any longer than that and as an indie guy you start to lose the interest of your readers but more importantly sales fall off to nothing.  My advice would be that if you want to see if you're any good write whatever.  But at the point you're ready to go serious and writing is your full time job.  Then its got to be 3 books minimum per year on your mainline series and the other one per year can be whatever.

That said you can cheat around this 3-4 books a year writing plan if you've got a backlist of books you've already written and just slowly intersperse them in amongst your new writing.

On the making a living off your writing front you could sacrifice readers continued interest if you're getting a couple sales per day off your backlist.

But that's just my 0.02c

Its all about life goals and choices.



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Offline Wordmaker

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Re: POV's and whatnot
« Reply #25 on: July 11, 2013, 05:43:35 AM »
This could be worth starting a separate thread for, but while I think you're right that it's all about your own personal goal and lifestyle choices, I don't agree that you have to put out a minimum of three books a year to be successful.

Yes, building up a back catalogue of titles is still the single most reliable way to become a midlist author. However, don't assume that just because you can put out three or four titles a year means you're ready to, or that it means you're ready to take the plunge and depend on writing as your primary income.

You know what? This is an important topic to discuss, so I think I will go start a new thread for it. Not a lot of online sources take the time to discuss the pros and cons of various release schedules.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2013, 06:38:32 AM by Wordmaker »

Offline The Deposed King

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Re: POV's and whatnot
« Reply #26 on: July 11, 2013, 06:31:03 AM »
This could be worth starting a separate thread for, but while I think you're right that it's all about your own personal goal and lifestyle choices, I don't agree that you have to put out a minimum of three books a year to be successful.

Yes, building up a back catalogue of titles is still the single most reliable way to become a midlist author. However, don't assume that just because you can put out three or four titles a year means you're ready to, or that it means you're ready to take the plunge and depend on writing as your primary income.

You know what? This is an important topic to discuss, so I think I will go start a new thread for it. Not a lot of online sources take the time to discuss the pros and cons of various release schedules.

Should probably put a link to the new thread in there.



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Offline Wordmaker

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Re: POV's and whatnot
« Reply #27 on: July 11, 2013, 06:38:43 AM »
Done  :)

Offline Anei

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Re: POV's and whatnot
« Reply #28 on: July 18, 2013, 02:59:34 AM »
I would quibble with this.  To my mind your statement would be true if:

1) you are working for a publisher

2) writing is a part time job

3) writing is just something you do for fun and to see if you are any good/can make some money

However the successful indie guys I've been watching.  They all write a book every 3-4 months without fail.  Go any longer than that and as an indie guy you start to lose the interest of your readers but more importantly sales fall off to nothing.  My advice would be that if you want to see if you're any good write whatever.  But at the point you're ready to go serious and writing is your full time job.  Then its got to be 3 books minimum per year on your mainline series and the other one per year can be whatever.

That said you can cheat around this 3-4 books a year writing plan if you've got a backlist of books you've already written and just slowly intersperse them in amongst your new writing.

On the making a living off your writing front you could sacrifice readers continued interest if you're getting a couple sales per day off your backlist.

But that's just my 0.02c

Its all about life goals and choices.



The Deposed King

I have no delusions - I'm definitely a casual/hobby writer. I'm sure that anything I write will be read by, tops, like 3 people at least one of whom is my husband. That being said, I guess then that the frequency of completing works is not especially important. I think I might fiddle around with first person, maybe limited third person switching narrators between completed works as appropriate.

Offline The Deposed King

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Re: POV's and whatnot
« Reply #29 on: July 18, 2013, 04:24:54 AM »
My fantasy book was written all 3rd person.  I only had one chapter with the non-MC when she was almost killed and very much unconscious.

My Spineward Sectors series on the other hand is 1st person for the MC and 3rd person for all my secondary characters.

On the writing front.  It takes a few books out there to be able to support yourself as an indie writer.  So transitioning from the day job could be tough.  Regardless don't be afraid, if you love writing then just keep on keeping on.  However if the idea of going full time is kicking around in the back of your head, keep the advise you hear in mind.

On POV's its very important (to my mind) to make sure to keep your Main Character in the spot light.  too much side shifting around to secondary characters can really queer the deal.  Not that you can't do it.  (I did it in my 3rd book Admiral's Tribulation after the MC was almost dead and very much unconsciou)  Just that you have to be careful.


the Deposed King


Proverbs 22:7, "The rich rule over the poor, and the borrower is slave of the lender"

The Deposed King (a member of baen's bar)