Invitation to pass a threshold - explicit or implicit?

[Cadd]

Is it possible to be implicitly invited into a home and thus be able to pass the threshold unaffected, without the presence of a resident?

The idea is this - a WCV works as a superintendent for a number of apartment buildings. He thus of course have access to keys to the flats. If a tenant has asked for something to be fixed, and that isn't yet done, would that work as a sort of "standing invitation" so he wouldn't need to be actually invited in to enter the apartment?
Or is an invitation always a then-and-there, face-to-face thing?

[PatchR]

Related to this topic:

Does someone who runs a business out of their home have a weakened threshold because of this?

[Taran]

@Cadd:

I don't remember which book it was.  The one where the Murphy's partner is wracked by the mental whammy.  She asks if Harry can come and have a look.

So even though he's been asked to come (standing invitation), he specifically asks for the Homeowner to invite him in. (implicit).

Not sure if that is a solid example, though, since it was Murphy who asked Harry to come and not the Homeowner.  Presumably, she knew Harry was coming?

@PatchR: For a business in the home?  I'd say no.  During business hours since "everyone is welcome" at that time people can come and go unhindered.  The "OPEN" sign is basically an invitation from the Homeowner.  When the store is closed, there needs to be a specific invitation.

[narphoenix]

Not exactly, Taran. In GS, Morty's threshold is specifically mentioned to be weak because he runs his business out of it, even though the "store" wasn't open at the time.

[Taran]

Not exactly, Taran. In GS, Morty's threshold is specifically mentioned to be weak because he runs his business out of it, even though the "store" wasn't open at the time.

Aha.  I guess just use the modifiers they have in the book.  Also, if that's the case, I'd say the kind of business you run would affect how much the threshold drops.  If you're business is "unwholesome", for instance.  Like the difference between having a porn shop as a business or a Christian or Childrens books Store. 

[Tedronai]

In several instances, iirc, there are what would be reasonably strong 'implicit' invitations to an individual's home (Murphy's is the most common that I can recall: opening the door for an expected visitor, then stepping aside so as to allow them entry while neglecting to explicitly invite them through) that are nevertheless pointed out to not suffice to pass the threshold without effect (and are used in this manner specifically to weaken any supernatural threat the visitor might pose).
In Ghost Story, for instance, when Murphy meets with the WCV in her home.  (pretty sure that's not any meaningful spoiler;  I'll add tags if I'm asked to, though)


I think any unwholesomeness happening in the home would affect the threshold, or not, entirely independantly from association with a business.

[vonpenguin]

I recall in grave peril, while Harry does require an invite from an actual resident (Murphy doesn't count) he does state that the fact that cops and emts have been going in and out so much that the threshold is torn to heck at the moment. I would say that while a mortal can pass through a threshold without bothering them, it does hurt the threshold. A church has a strong threshold because it isn't a business to the people who go there, it is a sort of second home.

[ReaderAt2046]

Related question: I have been working on the idea of a full Christian fae, and I was thinking that he should be able to enter any church without being effected by its threshold, since as a Christian he sort of by definition is invited into churches.

[Taran]

That seems reasonable considering Angels aren't hampered by a churches threshold.

[Sanctaphrax]

Eh, I don't think most churches have an "all Christians welcome" policy. They probably all have an "all angels welcome" policy though.

So I wouldn't normally let a Christian fey ignore church thresholds, even if angels can.

That being said, I imagine there's a standing invitation for every church service.

[vonpenguin]

I don't know. Most churches will allow people into the main "church" part to pray at most times of the day. I imagine you'd need an invitation to go into the offices and priests rooms, possibly even the confessional though.

[Cadd]

Thanks everyone for the input! Much helped

@Cadd:

I don't remember which book it was.  The one where the Murphy's partner is wracked by the mental whammy.  She asks if Harry can come and have a look.

So even though he's been asked to come (standing invitation), he specifically asks for the Homeowner to invite him in. (implicit).

Not sure if that is a solid example, though, since it was Murphy who asked Harry to come and not the Homeowner.  Presumably, she knew Harry was coming?

That wouldn't count as an invitation, because as you said, it was Murphy who gave the standing "invitation", not someone living there...



Gestures work, definitely. If I as a resident steps aside from the door and gestures to come in, that's an invitation. If I just stand there "challengingly", it of course isn't. What I'm thinking is basically Murphy calling Harry saying "go over to my place and get in, I'll be there in an hour".

Come to think of it, in Dead Beat, Harry has no problem with Murphy's threshold as he's been asked to take care of her house (plants etc), right? So that would be a point for standing invitation from a resident working...

[Wordmaker]

I think standing invitations do work, but I rule that there has to be an explicit invitation, either verbal or written. So, stepping aside doesn't count as an invitation, but asking someone to check on your plants for a certain period of time or sign over the door saying "enter all ye faithful" would be okay.

The only grey area I'd have to this is if someone is physically brought across a threshold against their will or without their knowledge. What happens if you knock out a vampire and carry them into a church?

[Tedronai]

Forcibly carrying an individual across a threshold can mean nothing short of your indication that you wish them to cross that threshold.  If you are a member of the household imbued with the authority to offer invitations, then you have inherently invited them.

[OwleIsohos]

What if you're not a member of the household, though?

I would think that forcibly carrying an individual across a threshold in that circumstance would have the same effect as if the individual were trying to cross that threshold.  In the case of things that can't cross thresholds without an invitation, you wouldn't be able to carry them across no matter how hard you tried.