Which Bonuses for Evothaum?

[narphoenix]

So, say someone's casting a biomancy Evothaum. Do you use Biomancy Complexity to determine power and Biomancy control to determine control, or do oh model it as an evocation with evocation bonuses, just with wider effects?

[Dr.FunLove]

Per the Evothaum side bar on YS pg 288 it uses the same structure as Evocation: so control and attack rolls, calling up power, etc. Evothaum just has broader effects based on the Thaumaturgy it is copying.

[narphoenix]

Yes, but do you use The Evocation bonuses or The Thaumaturgy ones?

[Tedronai]

Evothaum IS Evocation with a differing set of available (narrative) effects.  It uses the rules for Evocation, including those for specializations and foci.

[Dr.FunLove]

What Ted said.

[Sanctaphrax]

Yo.

[vultur]

I always assumed it was Thaumaturgic Complexity = Evothaum Power and Thaumaturgic Control = Evothaum Control.

I still think that's how it should work, even now that I see it's not actually written that way.

[Tedronai]

Houserule as you will.
If you implement that, and have previously or later implement RAW on the matter, let us know how the results compare.

[vultur]

Houserule as you will.
If you implement that, and have previously or later implement RAW on the matter, let us know how the results compare.

I'm not convinced there IS a RAW on the matter. It never really says either way.

The sidebar on evothaum has three bullet points; it's limited to line of sight, "the spell is cast like evocation: power first, control later, all done in one exchange"; it has access to thaumaturgic effects, and you use the thaumaturgic complexity as a guideline for the necessary evocation power. It then goes on to say that the difference between available effects is largely a matter of what you don't have to rationalize. No statement on foci.

I can see "use evocation foci" as an interpretation of "the spell is cast like evocation," but since it then goes on to explain that as "power first, control later, all done in one exchange", I don't find that convincing.

[Taran]

I can see "use evocation foci" as an interpretation of "the spell is cast like evocation," but since it then goes on to explain that as "power first, control later, all done in one exchange", I don't find that convincing.

Evocation uses Power and control.  Thaumaturgy uses Complexity and Control.  Therefore evo-thaum uses evocation foci because complexity won't boost an evocation spell - only power does that.

The difference between evocation and evothaum is the "elements".  For example, evocation lets youyou can attack with spirit, fire, water, earth, air.

Evothaum lets you attack with biomancy, ectomancy etc...  it's still an attack but it has a different narrative and, in some instances, might have different effects.

Evocation lets you put up a block while evothaum lets you put up a ward.  A ward has different limitations and advantages than a block.  The methods are all evocation.  Evocation does not use thaum foci.

[vultur]

Evocation uses Power and control.  Thaumaturgy uses Complexity and Control.  Therefore evo-thaum uses evocation foci because complexity won't boost an evocation spell - only power does that.

Hmm, that does make sense, but WHAT evocation foci? I mean, would an entropomancy evothaum use spirit foci, water foci, or what?

I guess you could make specific evothaum foci but that seems too pricey for something that's often kind of niche (given how low the effective complexity will likely be).

[GryMor]

It's actually relatively cheap since sponsored magic generally constitutes a singular element.

[vultur]

It's actually relatively cheap since sponsored magic generally constitutes a singular element.

You mean use "Unseelie Magic Power/Control" foci rather than "Entropomancy Power/Control" foci for the entropomancy-as-evocation that Unseelie Magic lets you use?

If you can use your existing Unseelie Magic evocation foci, then yeah, that makes sense.

[GryMor]

You mean use "Unseelie Magic Power/Control" foci rather than "Entropomancy Power/Control" foci for the entropomancy-as-evocation that Unseelie Magic lets you use?

If you can use your existing Unseelie Magic evocation foci, then yeah, that makes sense.

Keep in mind, as Evocation, foci are still split between offensive and defensive.

[Tedronai]

You mean use "Unseelie Magic Power/Control" foci rather than "Entropomancy Power/Control" foci for the entropomancy-as-evocation that Unseelie Magic lets you use?

You could get yourself an Entropomancy Offensive Control focus, but it wouldn't make much sense to do so if your Entropomancy evothaum comes from Unseelie Magic and you already have (or could make/acquire) an Unseelie Magic Offensive Control focus.

It'd be rather like an individual with Ritual:Ectomancy getting themselves a Summoning&Binding focus.  They could do it, but it would only help them Summon/Bind ghosts and the like, since those are the only things they can affect with their magic.