Maybe an English degree is a must?

[arianne]

I would definitely agree that if you look long and hard enough, you will find one or two, maybe even several, fantasy authors who have no English major/creative writing course/Classics education etc of any sort. But are these people the exception rather than the rule? Maybe these are the one in a million extra extra good at writing people...?

On the flip side, I would also agree that there are people who are English majors who couldn't write a novel to save their lives. And there's nothing wrong with that, if they weren't interested in writing a novel in the first place. (Because not everyone is as obsessed with writing as writers are )

I think on a deep level I am worried of not putting in enough symbolism or hidden meaning or whatever it is they put in the Cliffsnotes these days.

On a not so deep level I sometimes just feel inadequate for no reason at all. (Don't we all?)

In a way, it's kind of like music. I listen to a lot of pop music, so let's go with that as a metaphor. I haven't seen many pop artists out there who didn't have some sort of musical education, whether it was at a high-class private school, a music major at college, or, at the very least, most of them have taken piano/guitar/bass lessons.

Are there pop musicians out there who don't know how to play instruments? I'm sure there are. Are there pop musicians out there who don't know how to read music but can write their own songs? Yes there are. Are they good musicians? Some of them are, depending on who you ask. Are there many of these musicians? No.

So I guess the big question I'm trying to ask is, what makes me think that I can be one of these musicians? Am I in fact just another wannabe on American Idol?

I'll just go off and wallow now....

[Shecky]

It may sound odd coming from me (I was not far from becoming a permanent student), but degrees mean nothing in and of themselves. What matters is innate ability + study (be it guided or otherwise, as long as it's done intelligently and fully) + practice. Yes, those often occur among those who choose advanced study in the field, but it's not a MUST-have.

[Wordmaker]

Heh, trust me, don't worry about symbolism and just focus on writing an entertaining story. People who want to find symbolism will find it even if you didn't put it there, and people who don't won't notice if you put hours of work into including it.

And remember this piece of advice.

[LizW65]

I think on a deep level I am worried of not putting in enough symbolism or hidden meaning or whatever it is they put in the Cliffsnotes these days.

To paraphrase Stephen King in On Writing: Just concentrate on plot and character, and theme will take care of itself. Otherwise, he warns, you could end up with something like Atlas Shrugged on your hands.

[aikidoka]

More the latter. I've known a lot of English majors (and English grad students, for that matter) whom I wouldn't trust to write the number 1 on a piece of paper. Education isn't limited to matriculation, y'know.

I know what you mean.  I have a friend who has a Masters in English, and one time she emailed me about how she was being a pre-madonna about some upcoming event.  Wrote her back saying I always thought of her more as a post-madonna.

[Shecky]

I know what you mean.  I have a friend who has a Masters in English, and one time she emailed me about how she was being a pre-madonna about some upcoming event.  Wrote her back saying I always thought of her more as a post-madonna.

Deity-of-your-choice save us from "prefix" or "price fix" menus, too.

[the neurovore of Zur-En-Aargh]

I suspect that there's a scale at which any degree can be useful to an aspiring writer in that a degree is a project on roughly the same order of magnitude as a novel, and being able to manage yourself to complete a degree is bound to teach you useful things in terms of managing yourself to complete novels.

[Shecky]

"Can be useful", certainly. But it's not a must by any stretch of the imagination. Might as well get a degree in math for the discipline/management skills.

[The Deposed King]

"Can be useful", certainly. But it's not a must by any stretch of the imagination. Might as well get a degree in math for the discipline/management skills.

I think we're all forgetting something here.  We all (or 99.9%) of us have an english degree.  Its just not an advanced degree, its not at masteral or bachelorate level but it is there.  Its called going to school both elementary and highschool.  There we are taught english each and every day.  Then for those of us who are 'self taught' we read voraciously in sci-fi, fantasy, fiction, etc.

American Idol, as was mentioned before, doesn't really compare because how many of us are taught to use a musical instrument for one class each and every grade from kinder to high-school?  Meanwhile we are all taught 'english' every year.

A different perspective is all.

Follow the dream, never give up and always remember you can get more out of one or two classes you really apply yourself to, than years of studying but not really caring what you're learning about.



The Deposed King

[Shecky]

I think we're all forgetting something here.  We all (or 99.9%) of us have an english degree.  Its just not an advanced degree, its not at masteral or bachelorate level but it is there.  Its called going to school both elementary and highschool.  There we are taught english each and every day.  Then for those of us who are 'self taught' we read voraciously in sci-fi, fantasy, fiction, etc.

American Idol, as was mentioned before, doesn't really compare because how many of us are taught to use a musical instrument for one class each and every grade from kinder to high-school?  Meanwhile we are all taught 'english' every year.

A different perspective is all.

Follow the dream, never give up and always remember you can get more out of one or two classes you really apply yourself to, than years of studying but not really caring what you're learning about.



The Deposed King

Pretty sure the OP was specifically referring to a bachelor's degree in English, since it does seem to be fairly common among published authors, but I take your point. Honestly, I learned correct English by reading good writing; discerning patterns can be even more useful than direct instruction, but they both do come down to willingness and desire to get something out of what's in front of us. The linguistics work I did, for the most part, merely confirmed what I already knew and added some more whys and wherefores. Which is utterly fascinating to me and which is why I like language in the first place.

[arianne]

Yes, I was referring to BA English and/or creative writing courses, not just high school English or even college freshmen English courses. I mean a degree or a course that focuses entirely on the writing of a creative work (and not just the grammar or the SAT words of a language).

Language itself carries so much more than just the things we get tested on in high school--it contains elements of culture and modes of thinking and whatnot. (For example, a joke that works in English may fall flat or even be offensive in Spanish). Knowing a language, speaking it fluently, and having a lot of vocab doesn't necessarily make a good writer.

[Sully]

Off the top of my head, Elizabeth Moon has degrees in history and biology.  None in English.
 
I think you see so many authors with English degrees because somebody in love with literature and a creative bent isn't likely to go after a science degree. Moon excepted.

Going one step farther, you get better at writing by writing, not doing lab report math.

It may sound odd coming from me (I was not far from becoming a permanent student), but degrees mean nothing in and of themselves. What matters is innate ability + study (be it guided or otherwise, as long as it's done intelligently and fully) + practice. Yes, those often occur among those who choose advanced study in the field, but it's not a MUST-have.

Yeah, music degrees aren't hard, just work.  Gotta put the time in practicing, that is all.  IF you've got the talent to start with.  Very very very few people fail their recital(fail the recital, no degree-no matter what your grades are).  You pretty much figure out if you can hack it well before then.  I'd imagine the other arts are the same.

[the neurovore of Zur-En-Aargh]

I think you see so many authors with English degrees because somebody in love with literature and a creative bent isn't likely to go after a science degree.

And then again, you see genre writers like Gregory Benford and Alison Sinclair who are working academic scientists, and I am a working scientist with strong love for writing and aspirations to write professionally myself.

[Quantus]

I think you see so many authors with English degrees because somebody in love with literature and a creative bent isn't likely to go after a science degree. Moon excepted.

You've obviously never played DnD

[The Deposed King]

You've obviously never played DnD

Going where Dragon's fear to tread, eh Quantus?  Neuro delights in taking such statements and tearing them apart!



The Deposed King