Channeling vs Evocation Cost

[Mrmdubois]

Oh yeah, I've seen that one.  It seems pricey to me but honestly I wouldn't know.

[JDK002]

Oh yeah, I've seen that one.  It seems pricey to me but honestly I wouldn't know.

Funny i said the same thing when I first saw it.  But really it gives the same benefits as sponsored magic for the same cost.  You're basically getting a refinement for free in exchange for having an exceedingly narrow magical focus.

[Mrmdubois]

Oh, ok.  I thought it was being suggested to take it in addition to channeling, but what you said makes a lot more sense.

[Lavecki121]

Sorry, yes I did understand that and I take no offense. What I mean is that there is really no mechanical benefit to having more elements, thus the amount of elements doesn't really matter. People may feel different, but this is my opinion

[Mrmdubois]

If by element you mean a style of evocation based on a Classical Greek element like Fire and not an "element" of evocation.  Then yeah.

[Lavecki121]

I'm not 100% sure what you mean by your post but I think we agree

[Mrmdubois]

I think we do too.

[austiknight]

Great answers all. 100 likes for Uncle Iroh...

Sponsored magic (or some variant thereof) seems like a good route for a focused caster with some additional depths.

[Lavecki121]

If by element you mean a style of evocation based on a Classical Greek element like Fire and not an "element" of evocation.  Then yeah.

Wait...do you mean that you should only ever have 5 elements? Because if so then I think we may be back to disagreeing. 

[Tedronai]

Wait...do you mean that you should only ever have 5 elements? Because if so then I think we may be back to disagreeing. 

Any given player (and/or their respective GM) should think very, very carefully before creating a character using an element paradigm containing a number of elements other (be it greater or fewer) than 5.

[Lavecki121]

I dont feel there is any balance issue with it but I would be open to be convinced otherwise.

[austiknight]

Some elements can definitely reasonably do a wider array of maneuvers (compare fire to air, earth or spirit) but for the most part, each element attacks and blocks in a fairly similar manner (mechanically). You don't need ALL the elements to do whatever you need to do.

It doesn't seem to me that someone who has Air, Fire and Spirit (But not water or earth) is weaker than someone with Air, Water and Metal (but not fire, wood or spirit) or someone with Ice, Entropy and Light (but not Cloud, Darkness, Wood, Earth, Fire, Law, Water, Spirit and Beast).

As long as whatever chosen elements from the system you believe in give you a wide enough array of reasonable effects for you to play your character effectively, it doesn't matter how many other elements you think are out there.

In the books, there are various types of evocation that people and boogin's throw out. Stylistically/mechanically, some work better as sponsored magic, but some could easily be reskinned as elements.

[Lavecki121]

That is basically my point. Having more elements or less elements doesnt really do much because most of the time you can explain a wide variety of effects through just one element.

[Tedronai]

The vast majority of evocation-appropriate effects likely available through Ice, Entropy, and Cloud are available through the canon interpretation of Water.  A character, then, who selects any of those former three elements is substantially less versatile than a character who instead selected the single latter element.
In fact, a character who selected EACH of the former three elements would be only slightly more versatile than a character with ONLY the single latter element.

Having more elements REALLY DOES 'do much' to affect game balance where evokers are concerned.



edit: To take this point to the extreme, so as to make it eminently clear, consider a character capable of producing all evocation effects normally available under the 'classic' canon 5-'element' paradigm from their paradigm using only ONE 'element'.  Now compare that character to one for whom those effects are divided amongst one hundred, or one thousand different 'elements'.
Each of those characters purchases the Channeling power.
Which has more versatility?  Versatility being itself a form of power, which has more power?

[Lavecki121]

I dont see how. Especially if I make the five elements Ice, entropy, cloud, water, blood. They are all canon "water" but i have made them into a five element system. Its still five. Which is what you said would unbalance it. Or does the entirety of the universe in which you operate have to operate on the same five elements?