Author Topic: Has Mab become something more? [CD Spoilers]  (Read 45000 times)

Offline Ms Duck

  • Needs A Life
  • ***
  • Posts: 26818
  • Duck of The Black Court
    • View Profile
Re: Has Mab become something more? [CD Spoilers]
« Reply #15 on: March 05, 2013, 12:54:21 AM »
Ive thought about it, and I have concluded Mab has become more.

she is now Mrs. Dresden.

 ;D
Yeah, but Germans and Hungarians don't pull people's theories out of their sockets when they're challenged.  Ducks are known to do that.


That's been disabled. But I can still CALL you Fup Duck. -Shecky

Offline KrelianZG

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 3339
  • Temporary Catatonic Madman on Occasion
    • View Profile
    • KrelianZG's Facebook
Re: Has Mab become something more? [CD Spoilers]
« Reply #16 on: March 05, 2013, 12:58:33 AM »
Ive thought about it, and I have concluded Mab has become more.

she is now Mrs. Dresden.

 ;D

My "Harry as father of Maeve and Sarissa" is all coming together now. Mwahahaha.
« Last Edit: March 05, 2013, 01:02:57 AM by KrelianZG »

Offline huangjimmy108

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 3073
    • View Profile
Re: Has Mab become something more? [CD Spoilers]
« Reply #17 on: March 05, 2013, 01:47:11 AM »
Ive thought about it, and I have concluded Mab has become more.

she is now Mrs. Dresden.

 ;D

It is more like Harry is now Mr. Winter rather than the other way around.

About Mab's soul. Mab spends time with Sarrissa like a few hours a year? And I suspect she did that to make sure that there is backup for WL position if it is nessasary. That is not enough to rekindle a soul like Mab. Mab's interactions with Harry is not long enough or intense enough to rekindle Mab's soul either.

It is possible that these interactions helps in slowing down the total subversion of Mab's mortal soul. What we saw in CD, if it is a spark of Mab's soul at all, is just what is left. To expect that prolong interactions with Harry and other mortals will eventually rekindle Mab's soul in just a few decades is extremely unlikely. Given enough time and nurture perhaps, like a thousand years of constant effort, maybe it is possible, but in just a century or two? and only a few hours a year? Not likely. And Mab herself will have to want it, which I don't think is the case. She seems to be content enough.

Changes did come to immortals, like what Mother summer said. But for immortals, those changes happens in hundreds, even thousands of years, if it ever happened at all and the immortal is certainly going to react badly to it.

We shall see if this is even possible. If Harry is able to do the same thing to the Winter knight mantle as what he did to laschiel's shadow, than we will know for sure that changing an immortal by prolong exposure to mortals is possible.
But they were doughnuts of darkness. Evil, damned doughnuts, tainted by the spawn of darkness . . .
    . . . which could obviously be redeemed only by passing through the fiery, cleansing inferno of a wizardly digestive tract.

Offline Mira

  • Needs A Life
  • ***
  • Posts: 24329
    • View Profile
Re: Has Mab become something more? [CD Spoilers]
« Reply #18 on: March 05, 2013, 02:03:00 AM »

  I stand by what I said.. We understand Mab more so she seems like more..

Offline KrelianZG

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 3339
  • Temporary Catatonic Madman on Occasion
    • View Profile
    • KrelianZG's Facebook
Re: Has Mab become something more? [CD Spoilers]
« Reply #19 on: March 05, 2013, 02:04:08 AM »
  I stand by what I said.. We understand Mab more so she seems like more..

There's a lot of truth to this. I do think, given the stated nature of Winter and MW's comments, Mab has changed a bit. I agree that it's not as drastic as what we see in the course of the series though.

Offline 123456789blaaa

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 1081
  • Proud member of the Purple Court.
    • View Profile
Re: Has Mab become something more? [CD Spoilers]
« Reply #20 on: March 05, 2013, 02:28:31 AM »
It is more like Harry is now Mr. Winter rather than the other way around.

About Mab's soul. Mab spends time with Sarrissa like a few hours a year? And I suspect she did that to make sure that there is backup for WL position if it is nessasary. That is not enough to rekindle a soul like Mab. Mab's interactions with Harry is not long enough or intense enough to rekindle Mab's soul either.

It is possible that these interactions helps in slowing down the total subversion of Mab's mortal soul. What we saw in CD, if it is a spark of Mab's soul at all, is just what is left. To expect that prolong interactions with Harry and other mortals will eventually rekindle Mab's soul in just a few decades is extremely unlikely. Given enough time and nurture perhaps, like a thousand years of constant effort, maybe it is possible, but in just a century or two? and only a few hours a year? Not likely. And Mab herself will have to want it, which I don't think is the case. She seems to be content enough.

Changes did come to immortals, like what Mother summer said. But for immortals, those changes happens in hundreds, even thousands of years, if it ever happened at all and the immortal is certainly going to react badly to it.

We shall see if this is even possible. If Harry is able to do the same thing to the Winter knight mantle as what he did to laschiel's shadow, than we will know for sure that changing an immortal by prolong exposure to mortals is possible.

Maybe it wasn't just Sarrissa, maybe it started long before Sarrissa was even born. We don't have enough information (also note that Sarrissa is her daughter. Perhaps that aided as well). I beleive it was stated that Mab has been Winter Queen for a thousand years?

Why does she have to want it?

How do you explain the clashing WoJ's and MW's statement?

  I stand by what I said.. We understand Mab more so she seems like more..

How do you explain the WoJ?
Please, call me Count :).

Thanks go to Shecky for the nickname and Serack for the avatar ^,..,^

Offline Ms Duck

  • Needs A Life
  • ***
  • Posts: 26818
  • Duck of The Black Court
    • View Profile
Re: Has Mab become something more? [CD Spoilers]
« Reply #21 on: March 05, 2013, 02:37:15 AM »
seriously, do you think the woman who became Mab grew more intelligent, ruthless, cunning, and relentless as the mantle took over or was she always one kick arse biotch from heck which is why she got the job?

I think it's the latter.

then the explanation for why she still has part of her soul is simple.. she's too dang stubborn not too.

she just won't give up.. not to nemesis, not to the outsiders, and not to her own nature. She will be what she wishes to be and heck helps whomever gets in her way.

 ;D
Yeah, but Germans and Hungarians don't pull people's theories out of their sockets when they're challenged.  Ducks are known to do that.


That's been disabled. But I can still CALL you Fup Duck. -Shecky

Offline 123456789blaaa

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 1081
  • Proud member of the Purple Court.
    • View Profile
Re: Has Mab become something more? [CD Spoilers]
« Reply #22 on: March 05, 2013, 02:40:22 AM »
seriously, do you think the woman who became Mab grew more intelligent, ruthless, cunning, and relentless as the mantle took over or was she always one kick arse biotch from heck which is why she got the job?

I think it's the latter.

then the explanation for why she still has part of her soul is simple.. she's too dang stubborn not too.

she just won't give up.. not to nemesis, not to the outsiders, and not to her own nature. She will be what she wishes to be and heck helps whomever gets in her way.

 ;D

Well Lily wasn't exactly "kick arse" and she got the job. Molly is arguably "kick arse" but she wasn't a first option. Sarrissa didn't really seem "kick arse" either.

I do agree with you though.

Though...why would the Mab described in the WoJ's care if she lost her soul?
Please, call me Count :).

Thanks go to Shecky for the nickname and Serack for the avatar ^,..,^

Offline Ms Duck

  • Needs A Life
  • ***
  • Posts: 26818
  • Duck of The Black Court
    • View Profile
Re: Has Mab become something more? [CD Spoilers]
« Reply #23 on: March 05, 2013, 02:42:10 AM »
Well Lily wasn't exactly "kick arse" and she got the job. Molly is arguably "kick arse" but she wasn't a first option. Sarrissa didn't really seem "kick arse" either.

I do agree with you though.

Though...why would the Mab described in the WoJ's care if she lost her soul?

because she wants it... and she refuses to give up, that's why.

Yeah, but Germans and Hungarians don't pull people's theories out of their sockets when they're challenged.  Ducks are known to do that.


That's been disabled. But I can still CALL you Fup Duck. -Shecky

Offline KrelianZG

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 3339
  • Temporary Catatonic Madman on Occasion
    • View Profile
    • KrelianZG's Facebook
Re: Has Mab become something more? [CD Spoilers]
« Reply #24 on: March 05, 2013, 02:44:18 AM »
Well Lily wasn't exactly "kick arse" and she got the job. Molly is arguably "kick arse" but she wasn't a first option. Sarrissa didn't really seem "kick arse" either.

I do agree with you though.

Though...why would the Mab described in the WoJ's care if she lost her soul?

Freeing yourself from the problems arising from having a soul and strong emotions isn't the same as being willing to lose your soul forever. If Mab was once human, it makes sense that she'd tuck that little bit of her away and hold on to it. I'd guess that Maeve was the first time in a millennium that Mab has made a choice that was potentially the wrong one based on emotion.

I support the "Mab has a soul that is still somewhat detectable" crowd, but I think we're in a unique position to see the one time it has really meant something.

Offline 123456789blaaa

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 1081
  • Proud member of the Purple Court.
    • View Profile
Re: Has Mab become something more? [CD Spoilers]
« Reply #25 on: March 05, 2013, 02:49:32 AM »
Freeing yourself from the problems arising from having a soul and strong emotions isn't the same as being willing to lose your soul forever. If Mab was once human, it makes sense that she'd tuck that little bit of her away and hold on to it. I'd guess that Maeve was the first time in a millennium that Mab has made a choice that was potentially the wrong one based on emotion.

I support the "Mab has a soul that is still somewhat detectable" crowd, but I think we're in a unique position to see the one time it has really meant something.

I can get her wanting to keep it after she first gets the Mantle. After 900 years of the Mantle chipping away at her soul you'd think she'd simply stop caring.  Mab is pragmatic.

Unless she made an oath or something...
Please, call me Count :).

Thanks go to Shecky for the nickname and Serack for the avatar ^,..,^

Offline matolilyfu

  • Conversationalist
  • **
  • Posts: 175
    • View Profile
Re: Has Mab become something more? [CD Spoilers]
« Reply #26 on: March 05, 2013, 02:52:18 AM »
Then at some time (possibly beginning with Sarrisa) she began interacting with Mortals too much. They then either gave her a soul back (but only a little) or fanned the ember until it was a guttering flame (possibly this was through soul exchanging as described by Bob in White Night).
Spending time with Sarissa may have touched the teeny tiny spark of Mab's mother love.  I just can't reconcile the idea that Mab was fanning the wee spark of a soul into a little flame, by spending time with Sarissa, while at the same time she was visiting tortures beyond comprehension on Lloyd Slate. (NOT defending Slate or saying he wasn't due some serious punishment.)  I just think soul-growth on weekends would be negated by torture through the work week.


Offline KrelianZG

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 3339
  • Temporary Catatonic Madman on Occasion
    • View Profile
    • KrelianZG's Facebook
Re: Has Mab become something more? [CD Spoilers]
« Reply #27 on: March 05, 2013, 02:53:13 AM »
I can get her wanting to keep it after she first gets the Mantle. After 900 years of the Mantle chipping away at her soul you'd think she'd simply stop caring.  Mab is pragmatic.

Unless she made an oath or something...

Following the mantle doesn't necessarily threaten EVERYTHING that makes you a human. I don't see where the mantle necessitates losing your soul. It might be easier, after centuries, to just stop holding on, sure. But Mab is Mab. She won't let anything she values totally slip away, even if it has no value 99% of the time.

Offline matolilyfu

  • Conversationalist
  • **
  • Posts: 175
    • View Profile
Re: Has Mab become something more? [CD Spoilers]
« Reply #28 on: March 05, 2013, 03:02:22 AM »
My "Harry as father of Maeve and Sarissa" is all coming together now. Mwahahaha.
That kind of skeeves me out.   :o

Offline KrelianZG

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 3339
  • Temporary Catatonic Madman on Occasion
    • View Profile
    • KrelianZG's Facebook
Re: Has Mab become something more? [CD Spoilers]
« Reply #29 on: March 05, 2013, 03:05:12 AM »
That kind of skeeves me out.   :o

As it should  8)