Cuz' Injun Joe is awsome...

[MadAlchemist]

Shape Mastery or Injun Joe's Trick -1 Refresh

Prerequisites: Modular Abilities & Thaumaturgy

Effect: Choose one Specialization type for Biomancy or Transformation, you may add this to your Modular Abilities pool. Only one bonus may be applied, this upgrade may only be acquired once.

For example: Wizard Listens to Wind has Thaumaturgy:
Control (Summoning and Binding +1, Biomancy +2)
Complexity (Divination +3, Summoning and Binding +4, Wards +1, Transportation and Worldwalking +1, Biomancy +5)
He would take advantage of his arcane skills with Biomancy Complexity adding 5 points to the pool of abilities at his disposal.

Too much crack or just enough?

[Magicpockets]

2 specializations are worth 1 Refresh. So if you take at least 2 Refinements, your power has already earned back its cost.

Just pay the Refresh for Modular abilities. It's good enough as it is.

[Taran]

But doesn't this power let you get the specializations for refinements AND the added refresh for modular abilities, based on your bonus for biomancy/transmutation?  That's how I'm reading it.

[Magicpockets]

But doesn't this power let you get the specializations for refinements AND the added refresh for modular abilities, based on your bonus for biomancy/transmutation?  That's how I'm reading it.

That's how I'm reading it too, and I consider it too strong, for the reasons I stated above.

[Taran]

Well don't your specializations have to follow a pyramid?

So if you limit the power to just Compexity or Control-whichever is higher, then how much refresh would you have to spend to get a +5 to your modular abilities.  Alot.

-1 Shape mastery
-3 Thaumaturgy = 1 biomancy complexity
-1 Refinement = 1 biomancy Control +2 complexity
-1 Refinement= +1 Transmutation complexity, +2 biomancy Control
-1 Refinement +3 biomancy Complexity, +1 transmutation Control

So he's spent 7 refresh to get a +3 bonus and it will cost more and more refresh for each additional bonus.  Also, the bonus would be capped by his Lore.

Not saying it's balanced, just pointing out that it might not be as broken as it seems.  Also, if he has specializations in Transmutation, they wouldn't stack.  Just take the highest bonus.

[Magicpockets]

IMO, it's 1 Refresh (Shape Mastery) for +3 Refresh (Modular Abilities) worth of powers, which in my opinion is very good, especially since you get the benefits of Refinement on top of that.

[Taran]

Yeah, but lots of powers have the option of discounts on refresh.  Usually with some kind of draw-back.  Toughness catches, Powers based on Feeding dependancy or human form.  This is just another power that provides a discount.  The draw-back is you have to sink everything into biomancy or transmutation (which may or may not be useful for a given situation).   You could be using those refinements for evocation or foci which might come up more often and be more useful.

I like how the better you become at biomancy/transmutation the better you get at shapeshifting.

Once again, I'm not saying it's the best way to model Injun Joe because I don't know the best way, but it seems neat.  I'm also not the best judge of custom powers.  It's why I never make any.

[Tedronai]

Typical rebate powers don't just offer a discount along with a drawback.  They offer a discount FOR a drawback.
The drawback is directly proportionate to the discount.  A larger discount requires a larger drawback.  This power does not reflect that fact, effectively providing free refresh for anyone focusing in biomancy or transmutation so long as they have substantial relevant specialisations and would have had those specialisations even in the absence of this power.
For the investment of 3 refresh, specialisations that you would already be taking provide double their actual value in additional bonuses, as well as their regular benefits.

[Taran]

Yeah, I guess at +3 it's pretty much double the value(except the refresh you spent on the power), but the benefits decrease as you take more refinements.  I see your point, though.

At a +3 worth of bonuses it's 6 refresh worth of power for 4 refresh .

[Tedronai]

It's a lot easier to take specialisations in different fields of Thaumaturgy that aren't redundant than it is to do so with Evocation, which means it's takes a lot longer before the 'specialisation pyramid' to result in 'waste' refresh.

With 7 refresh invested in Thaumaturgy (irrelevant specialisation), Refinement (+2 relevant specialisation), Modular Abilities, and this power, a character gains 8 refresh worth of powers.  With no actual rebate-worthy downside.
Add 6 more instances of refiment for a 5/4/3/2/1 specialisation pyramid and (assuming a relevant specialisation is at 5, and the remaining specialisations are not unnecessarily wasted - and even with that much invested, waste refresh is not necessary), the character gains 17 refresh worth of powers for their 13 refresh spent.

[Taran]

So he gains +4 refresh.  If you used the limitation power, that's roughly a 25% discount.  So if you were to put some kind of limitation on the Shape Mastery,(which, currently, there isn't one)  it would work.  So what kind of draw-back does/would Injun-Joe suffer in exchange on his extraordinary ability to change shape?

[Deadmanwalking]

To combine this with a suggestion in my Stat Revisions thread...maybe make the price an inability to use Thaumaturgy while using Modular Abilities?Presumably as you're busy using it to shapeshift. I dunno quite how that'd work out mechanics-wise or fairness-wise, actually, but it's at least an idea for a legitimate downside.

[Taran]

Yeah.  The other thing I was thinking is that the bonus could only be used if there was "prep" ahead of time- considering that the bonus comes from thaumaturgy.  I'm not sure if that kind of defeats the purpose of the power, though.

[Sanctaphrax]

No. Just no.

A form point is worth 1 Refresh. There shouldn't be a special method of purchasing them that makes them cheaper, unless that method involves some kind of drawback.

To combine this with a suggestion in my Stat Revisions thread...maybe make the price an inability to use Thaumaturgy while using Modular Abilities?Presumably as you're busy using it to shapeshift. I dunno quite how that'd work out mechanics-wise or fairness-wise, actually, but it's at least an idea for a legitimate downside.

Did you ever look at the Wannabe Listens-To-Wind example for Variable Abilities?

It's quite a bit like that.

[MadAlchemist]

  I didn't think to include True Shape-shifting in the prerequisites, but that was ,I thought, implied. The Idea is to put transformative magic of the scope Listens to Wind uses within reach of a Submerged, Wizard/Practitioner Template PC. It has come up in every game I've run and I want to be prepared next time.
 Not at all intended as a discount on Modular Abilities and it's not, at best you break even and then it becomes exponentially more expensive. What I am looking for is a way to model the complimentary abilities of magic and shapeshifting.
 I may tinker with the cost and/or restrict Thaum use in animal forms. Maybe not entirely but to what they can do in their head.