Drawing and Storing Magical Power

[Tedronai]

I've yet to see any compelling argument as to why something already within the rules (ie. navel-gazing maneuvers) is insufficient to this task.

[Taran]

And i'm really tempted to do a Power Points/Vancian Casting custom power based on those rules. you roll Conviction X number of times at the beginning of the scene, and that's how many shifts you get for spellcasting.

Actually, that's a good way to do it.  You make them roll right before the scene in which they're going to be casting.  Whatever shifts don't get used at the end of the scene go away.

I've yet to see any compelling argument as to why something already within the rules (ie. navel-gazing maneuvers) is insufficient to this task.

Because people like custom powers?

Edit: 

I'm in the scene aspect/compel boat on this one, but...

Here's a question:
To reiterate sanctaphrax's comment:  what prevents you from calling up 100shifts.

On that same line of thinking, where do you draw the line for the number of naval-gazing maneuvers one can do before a big fight?

[blackstaff67]

I'll differ from everyone here by stating that while Conviction may allow you to draw it, Endurance should be the defining skill regarding how much power you can hold based on the shifty (Hah! Get it?) premise that Harry spoke about how painful it was to retain all that magic.

[Taran]

I think that's just narrating the aspect.  "thrumming with power" or "painfully Powered up" 

I think it gets way too complicated if you start bringing in piles of skills.

[Hick Jr]

@Taran
The aforementioned restriction on the number of rolls, based on your Conviction. But based on Blackstaff's comment, I like basing it off of Endurance.

[Sanctaphrax]

And i'm really tempted to do a Power Points/Vancian Casting custom power based on those rules. you roll Conviction X number of times at the beginning of the scene, and that's how many shifts you get for spellcasting.

I would be interested in seeing that.

[Dr.FunLove]

So it seems like the consensus would be to utilize maneuvers/temporary Aspects. Interesting.

The idea of draw in this case, as has been said, should be considered to be as if you were drawing power in Thaumaturgy. Hence without stress. I'm more interested in modeling the retention/storage of such power (hence my question)

I feel like the "storage" concept could be handled in a way similar to the overflow/spin rules. Another way to consider it would be to have a "storage track" (perhaps based on Endurance as blackstaff suggested) to represent stored shifts.

@Taran
I agree that it is of an equal concern about stacking maneuvers ad infinitum. GM discretion there I guess?

@Hick
You should model that as a custom power. We all want it...oh yea.

[Lavecki121]

Would it be reasonable to have the PC take one mental stress per "round" that the magic is not being used to both represent the it hurts to hold in this magic and to mitigate the fact that they don't have to play that one stress minimum any longer?

[Dr.FunLove]

Without having its own track, I think that would be reasonable though I would lean towards physical stress instead of mental stress. You're filled to bursting...in a literal sense.

EDIT:
Example of a storage track
Power Reserves Track
Practitioners are capable of drawing power in and storing it for later use. The Power Reserves Track represents this ability in-game: a practitioner may draw in and store a number of shifts equal to their Conviction safely and without consequence. Any more shifts and they must take a physical consequence equal to the number of excess shifts stored. These shifts of power are subject to the standard rules governing Evocation and Thaumaturgy.

[Tedronai]

On that same line of thinking, where do you draw the line for the number of naval-gazing maneuvers one can do before a big fight?

I would use precisely the same limits in this instance as I would in any other similar one dealing either with maneuvers out-of-conflict or declarations within.  Personally, I prefer soft limits based primarily on an understanding between players and GM that they should avoid excess, with scaling difficulties for the inevitable situations where those limits are pushed.

[JDK002]

Actually, that's a good way to do it.  You make them roll right before the scene in which they're going to be casting.  Whatever shifts don't get used at the end of the scene go away.

Because people like custom powers?

Edit: 

I'm in the scene aspect/compel boat on this one, but...

Here's a question:
To reiterate sanctaphrax's comment:  what prevents you from calling up 100shifts.

On that same line of thinking, where do you draw the line for the number of naval-gazing maneuvers one can do before a big fight?

I would raise the difficulty of the roll for every declairation.  Representing it getting more and more difficult to hold the power drawn, and not allow further attempts after the first failed roll.

Also that the player is throwing a different aspect on themselves every time they roll.  It becomes very very easy to compel them multiple times.  Like say losing control of some or all of that power at the worst possible moment.  It would cost them a lot of fate points to buy out of it if they went overboard on the aspects.   

[Taran]

Without having its own track, I think that would be reasonable though I would lean towards physical stress instead of mental stress. You're filled to bursting...in a literal sense.

EDIT:
Example of a storage track
Power Reserves Track
Practitioners are capable of drawing power in and storing it for later use. The Power Reserves Track represents this ability in-game: a practitioner may draw in and store a number of shifts equal to their Conviction safely and without consequence. Any more shifts and they must take a physical consequence equal to the number of excess shifts stored. These shifts of power are subject to the standard rules governing Evocation and Thaumaturgy.

I really wouldn't try to make it too complicated.  How often would it get used?  How often is a wizard going to find himself in a place where magic is completely blocked?  I like a quick-and-dirty way of dealing with it.  The storing up shifts is an easy way of doing it.  Maybe just give them a "buzzing with Power" aspect until all the additional shifts are spent.  This can be compelled.

Also that the player is throwing a different aspect on themselves every time they roll.  It becomes very very easy to compel them multiple times.  Like say losing control of some or all of that power at the worst possible moment.  It would cost them a lot of fate points to buy out of it if they went overboard on the aspects.   

I never thought about compelling all those aspects. I tend to forget that GM's can use naval-gazing aspects against a PC when it's applicable.  It's an excellent way to represent any stress or consequences that result from building up all that power.

[blackstaff67]

Not only that, you can also force a Discipline roll to keep from involuntarily loosing all the power they stored up...and losing control of it.  Perhaps there's a legitimate reason many wizards don't try this except at home ("Sorry, Bob, you blew your Discipline roll, and now x number of shifts of magic are now flying wildly about.  Let's see what happens next...").

[Mr. Death]

I remember starting a thread about this same problem a little while ago. As I recall, some of the suggestions there were maneuvers before you go in, with each tag or invoke letting you cast a spell as normal. Alternately, taking mental consequences you could tag for the same purpose.

Or, someone else suggested, you 'bank' the mental stress going in--if Harry takes a 1-stress mental hit, that means later he can cash it in for an evocation that would normally cost him that shift. That way, it's basically regular casting, only you pay the stress up front before the fight.

[Dr.FunLove]

@Taran
I think we might be agreeing more or less here - all I am saying is have a track to represent stored shifts. I see the ability to pre-game shifts of power and store it as a facet of magic that one can use at any time, I think is the one thing I'd add. Keeping it simple is the goal of this discussion!

@JDK002
I like the idea of extra compels - it jives very well with the theme of the game/novels of "Power has Consequences".

#Maneuvers
I think my own issue with using maneuvers to represent this is that a wizard can, in theory, draw in as much extra power as he wants as long as its available. They CAN draw those extra shifts, but if they didn't want to use them they should be able to hold on to them somehow. I wouldn't want to add a roll to a practitioner character on something they can clearly do already.

Unless the maneuver is to HOLD the shifts...?