Author Topic: New Power: Return from the Dead, please review!  (Read 7230 times)

Offline Vargo Teras

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Re: New Power: Return from the Dead, please review!
« Reply #30 on: February 27, 2013, 02:07:31 PM »
At which point you're Taken Out, and your fate is in the hands of your opponent, subject to reason as overseen by the Table.
Just because someone takes you out, though, even in a physical conflict, doesn't mean they get to kill you.  With Undying, you've established the circumstances by which 'death' is a plausible result as being difficult to achieve.  Without it, that assessment must be done each time someone would have reason to propose 'death' as their preferred result.
All of that doesn't stop other Bad Things (TM) from befalling you, though, as a result of your unfortunate not-actually-demise.  Including those that could hypothetically make your character effectively unplayable while technically neglecting to 'kill' them. (take the classic, 'buried in several meters of concrete' solution to typical unkillable opponents; they're not dead, they're just not coming back)
Very much this. A power that reduces the range of taken out results doesn't actually make them any less potentially permanent. Whether it's being scattered across the forest by scavengers or taken in chains before the King of the Seas, bad things can happen to those who heal from physical consequences.

Offline Pantheras

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Re: New Power: Return from the Dead, please review!
« Reply #31 on: February 27, 2013, 07:01:29 PM »
Very much this. A power that reduces the range of taken out results doesn't actually make them any less potentially permanent. Whether it's being scattered across the forest by scavengers or taken in chains before the King of the Seas, bad things can happen to those who heal from physical consequences.

I'm getting the impression that this concept just doesn't fit in the Dresdenverse, where PC death isn't considered a big deal because (a) a PC can avoid death by accepting an Extreme Circumstance instead of the stress that would kill them (b) a PC can avoid death by instead making Concessions (c) Supernatural and Mythical Recovery already allows PCs to come back from the dead (?) & (d) there are many, many fates worst than death, and therefore death isn't really all that bad in comparison, so a power to negate it is silly.

So, it sounds like a character who can be shot, stabbed, burned, drowned, drawn and quartered, shot into the sun, killed in all sorts of nasty ways only to reappear in few days later in Los Angeles ... isn't very powerful according to the Dresdenverse game, worth a -1 Refresh at the most. 

But ... that's the same cost at Living Dead, only without the Corpse Body or the Dude! You're Dead!, and you -can- come back from being wholly destroyed.

>.>  Yeah, I think it should be maybe valued at a -2 (which can be totally negated with a +2 Catch anyway.)

Thanks for the review, guys!

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Offline Tedronai

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Re: New Power: Return from the Dead, please review!
« Reply #32 on: February 28, 2013, 01:14:29 AM »
valued at a -2 (which can be totally negated with a +2 Catch anyway.)

That's not how Catches work.
Rebate powers can never reduce the cost of the powers they're applied to past -1.
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Offline Mrmdubois

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Re: New Power: Return from the Dead, please review!
« Reply #33 on: February 28, 2013, 02:20:44 AM »
Also an Extreme Consequence won't keep you from getting killed if the number of shifts it can absorb are exceeded.

Offline Sanctaphrax

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Re: New Power: Return from the Dead, please review!
« Reply #34 on: February 28, 2013, 03:00:04 AM »
Immortality is narratively very powerful, but mechanically it's almost worthless. It's kind of like Wizard's Constitution...super awesome for the character, not so useful for the player.

Oh, and thank you, Sanctaphrax for the P.S. (totally, you're right.)  Sadly, your link doesn't work for me.

Oops. I must have broken something when I re-arranged my Dropbox. Try again, it should work now.

Offline Pantheras

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Re: New Power: Return from the Dead, please review!
« Reply #35 on: February 28, 2013, 08:38:18 AM »
Immortality is narratively very powerful, but mechanically it's almost worthless. It's kind of like Wizard's Constitution...super awesome for the character, not so useful for the player.

Oops. I must have broken something when I re-arranged my Dropbox. Try again, it should work now.

Thanks, Sanctaphrax , I think your reply has summed this up for me nicely.  And, wow, this power list looks pretty cool!  Also, thank you, Tedronai, for mentioning that tidbit about Catches and refresh costs.   
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"Rien ne pèse tant que un secret" - La Fontaine ;)