EvoThaum Focus Item

[Lavecki121]

So I made a character that has sponsored magic and the EvoThaum that goes with it. I then made a focus item that enhanced his thamaturgical abilities. Does this bonus stay when casting evothaum or does it need to be broken down further (attack/defense) or does it stay the same?

[Tedronai]

This question is left unanswered in the RAW.  Any answers that might be given represent only the opinion of the individual answering.  (ask your GM/table)

[Taran]

Transferring my answer to this thread:

I personally think you have to choose.  I think for sponsored magic you have the the flexibility of choice.  You can choose the bonus to apply to an evocation but then you have to decide the usual stuff like power/control, defense/offense or you can choose to apply it to thaum, but then that's it.  It kind of feels like double-dipping(actually triple or quadrupal dipping) if it can apply to everything at once.

And actually, if he took the evocation foci(from the evocation power) and applied them to the element "chronomancy" then he could have that bonus, but I don't see those evocation foci crossing over to a thaumaturgical application.  And the only reason he can do that is because has sponsored magic otherwise that element wouldn't be available to him.

So, in my mind, I can see there being a +4 chronomancy evo-thaum attack for the reasons I just mentionned, but he'd have to choose offense/defense and he couldn't apply them to actual Thaumaturgy.

[Lavecki121]

This question is left unanswered in the RAW.  Any answers that might be given represent only the opinion of the individual answering.  (ask your GM/table)

Thats why I put it here. Basically to ask oppinions and get other peoples take on it.

[Dr.FunLove]

As a member of said table, my opinion is to make Thamaturgy focuses apply but only if the spell is really a Thaumaturgy effect being applied through Evo-thaum. So, in Lavecki's characters case, if he wants Ethan to fly back in time to 1955 and meet up with his parents at their highschool dance, then sure.

Anything that has an Evocation effect would still be Evocation foci.

[Sanctaphrax]

I think it's better to use Thaumaturgy bonuses for evothaum, to avoid the silliness of having evothaum that's better than your actual thaumaturgy.

This does allow you to circumvent the whole offensive/defensive thing, but since thaumaturgical attacks have no weapon rating and thaumaturgical blocks aren't as convenient as evocation blocks it might not be necessary to differentiate between the two for evothaum.

[Dr.FunLove]

Well said Sanctaphrax.

[Tedronai]

I think it's better to use Thaumaturgy bonuses for evothaum, to avoid the silliness of having evothaum that's better than your actual thaumaturgy.

This does allow you to circumvent the whole offensive/defensive thing, but since thaumaturgical attacks have no weapon rating and thaumaturgical blocks aren't as convenient as evocation blocks it might not be necessary to differentiate between the two for evothaum.

When applied to Sancta's particular interpretation of the meaning of 'evothaum', that logic works reasonably well.
I have a different interpretation, one where having weapon ratings and all that jazz that goes with evocation is a part of 'evocation's methods', and applied in that instance, it makes little sense.
As I said, though, it is a differing interpretations of the rules that creates this lack of sense.

[Dr.FunLove]

@Tedronai
I would point out that Evo-Thaum is still Thaumaturgy - it's just very fast Thaumaturgy in the sense that it removes the ritual and complexity. It just makes your Thaumaturgy more flexible. Now I would put this out to you, or Sanctaphrax or anyone else: BAS (Big Ass Spells) that are juiced up evocations are possible - massive earthquakes, fiery maelstroms, dropping a satellite on someone's head. Would such things even be possible with Evo-thaum (in the sense that one has to build up the number of shifts of power to do it)?

[Lavecki121]

So if I have say chronomancy as an element grabbed by sponsored magic. Is it safe to say I could make a focus item to chronomancy control attack?

[Dr.FunLove]

In this case Chronomancy is the Evo-thaum theme isn't it?

[Lavecki121]

It would be yes. Also why don't thaumaturgical attacks have weapon ratings? And why are shells created in this way less effective than evocation?

I think it's better to use Thaumaturgy bonuses for evothaum, to avoid the silliness of having evothaum that's better than your actual thaumaturgy.

This does allow you to circumvent the whole offensive/defensive thing, but since thaumaturgical attacks have no weapon rating and thaumaturgical blocks aren't as convenient as evocation blocks it might not be necessary to differentiate between the two for evothaum.

[Tedronai]

@Tedronai
I would point out that Evo-Thaum is still Thaumaturgy - it's just very fast Thaumaturgy in the sense that it removes the ritual and complexity. It just makes your Thaumaturgy more flexible. Now I would put this out to you, or Sanctaphrax or anyone else: BAS (Big Ass Spells) that are juiced up evocations are possible - massive earthquakes, fiery maelstroms, dropping a satellite on someone's head. Would such things even be possible with Evo-thaum (in the sense that one has to build up the number of shifts of power to do it)?

By my interpretation, EvoThaum allows the 'what you can do with it' portion of the thaumaturgy section, using the methods of evocation, which I interpret to mean the 'how you do it' portion of the evocation section.

Assuming one was absurdly powerful enough to have sufficient effective conviction for the purposes of that particular area of the Craft, I see no reason why a Tunguska-like event could not be modelled using conventional evocation.  In my opinion, the presence or absence of EvoThaum would neither help nor hinder in that task.

[Dr.FunLove]

Evo-thaum, in that case, would allow me to drop a satellite on you right away where as someone without it would have to prepare in advance. This is assuming the level of power to do it.

All Evo-thaum is doing is Thaumaturgy minus the complexity portion - still have to have power and control of course. It just cuts out a step. Very useful but I guess the point of contention here is what is that it's still Thaumaturgy and therefore "limited" to the sorts of spell under its auspices.

[Taran]

See I think I agree with Tedronai.  It's the methods of evocation.  I think you use evocation foci, not thaumaturgy.

I think if you have to adjudicate every spell, it could get tedious.  What is the difference between a thaumaturgy block and an evocation block if it is done at the speed of evocation?

I don't understand what sanctaphrax means by when he says thaumaturgy blocks are less convenient.