[All Spoils] Key Words for Outsider Magic and Mordite

[Cruness]

If Elaine was infected, I would bet money that Part of what Dumorne was doing when "Entralling" Harry and Elaine included infecting them. If Elaine was infected then, it makes sense for her to be the source of Aurora's infection.

[SAZ]

Very nice – thanks

[Tarion]

Something to consider with this - The Outsider backed Entropy curse in Blood Rites.

with an effort of will I caught the dark power coursing down into the girl before it could do her harm.
Pain erupted in my left palm. The power was cold—and not mountain-breeze cold, either. It was slimy and nauseating, like something that had come slinking out from the depths of some enormous subterranean sea. In that instant of contact, my head exploded with terror. This power, this black magic, was wrong. Fundamentally, nightmarishly, intensely wrong.

The other thing to watch out for is that greasy is also used a fair bit for the Red Court's bat-like form, alongside slimy (and flabby, but I suspect that's less relevant). 

(click to show/hide)

Burn, you greasy bat-faced bastards! Burn!”

To my Sight, she was a Red Court vampire in its true form, only even more flabby and greasy than the normal vamp, a creature ancient in power and darkness.

The newcomer was set alight though, greasy skin going up like a bonfire, and it screamed hideously as it burned.

So Arianna's power being greasy might just be because she herself is greasy, rather than because of an Outside influence. 

[MrCraigyT]

Elaine - Infection HIGHLY PROBABLE.  Elaine uses magic several times in SK and WN, but the only time she uses magic for evil is when she casts the mind fog.  In that instance, Harry notes feeling almost every single key word for Outsiders.  What's more, he picked more of that same feeling (for the first time) when he returned home and found her under DuMorne's compulsion.

i posted somthing simalr about elain when cold days first came out. im thinking that when justin had here enthraled he also infected her with nemasis maby intentionaly maby not. but i dout nemisis would skip the chance to infect a wizard level practitioner. and i think it a prety safe bet to say justin was infected to. what with him workin for he who walks behind. yep i said for not with i thik justin was the walkers laky.

[MrCraigyT]

The other thing to watch out for is that greasy is also used a fair bit for the Red Court's bat-like form, alongside slimy (and flabby, but I suspect that's less relevant).

complet stab in the dark here. but vamps are demos from som where ells reaching in to someones soul and infecting it right...at least that what the white court vamps looked like when harry soul gazed tomas. so could it be posible that at least with the red that the dmon infecting the mortal could be an outsider??? cluching at staws here i know but its a posibility.

also i remeber the descrpition of the outsider gouls that cowl sent in to the raith deeps was it somthing along the lines of discsting and gotesc kind of like the decripton for red vamp....havn't got the books to had so I can't say for sure..

[123456789blaaa]

What about the Eldest Fetch's and Lord Raiths magic immunity?  I remember those two both being described similarly.

[TheCuriousFan]

What about the Eldest Fetch's and Lord Raiths magic immunity?  I remember those two both being described similarly.

I'm inclined to put the fire being put out in Arctis Tor as being just a feature of where they were rather than anything else, force spells worked just fine against Eldest Fetch for example and fire spells used against it outside Arctis Tor simply did the "splash off harmlessly" thing rather than stopping way before they got there.

[123456789blaaa]

I'm inclined to put the fire being put out in Arctis Tor as being just a feature of where they were rather than anything else, force spells worked just fine against Eldest Fetch for example and fire spells used against it outside Arctis Tor simply did the "splash off harmlessly" thing rather than stopping way before they got there.

I found Neuros argument pretty convincing:

Here is my preferred working hypothesis for what's going on in PG:

The Scarecrow is a "Black Council" agent - in this case a Circle agent.

Compare, Harry, p.476 of PG pb: "Consider all these things running around with more power than they should have had."  With p.366 ibid "This thing was no fetch, no changer of form and image and illusion. There was no shadowy mask over an amorphous form, no glamour altering its appearance, which my salve would have enabled me to see through.  This thing was a whole independent creature.  Except maybe it was a fetch so old and strong... "  (Emphasis mine.)  The "old strong fetch" theory is not what one might call confirmed.

Compare also, p. 368 ibid, "A lance of flame as thick as my wrist lashed out from the tip of the rod - and died two feet away from it, the burning energy of the strike swallowed by an unfathomable ocean of cold cold power."  That's not how entities toughing it out against Harry's fire from sheer resilience behave - see Grum in Reuel's apartment in SK, see Ursiel in DM.  What it is reminiscent of is Lord Raith's immunity to magic. Which we are pretty certain is Outsider based, which leads back to the Circle again.

Now "cold cold power" isn't exactly specific to the Outsiders of course. However, the similarity to Lord Raiths magic immunity clinches it for me (sorry to ask you again but a quote would be great).

[TheCuriousFan]

The resulting cannonball of blazing force struck the Scarecrow head-on while it was twenty feet away, exploding into a column of searing red flame, an inferno of heat and light that went off with enough force to throw the thing halfway across Lake Michigan.

Imagine my surprise when the Scarecrow stepped through my spell as if it had not existed. Its eyes regarded me with far too much awareness, and its arm moved, striking-snake fast.

This the quote you wanted me to provide?

[123456789blaaa]

This the quote you wanted me to provide?

I was talking about the description of Lord Raiths magic immunity actually. Sorry for not being clear  .

[TheCuriousFan]

I was talking about the description of Lord Raiths magic immunity actually. Sorry for not being clear  .

And felt nothing. Not just empty air and drifting dust, but nothing. A cold and somehow hungry emptiness that filled the space where he should have been. I'd felt something like it before, when I'd been near a mote of one of the deadliest substances that any world of flesh or spirit had ever known. My power, my magic, the flowing spirit of life, just vanished into it without getting near Raith.

Here you go.

[Ben de Wal]

You should add empty to your list. that’s how lord raith felt to harry when he has  outside protection

[madness]

I think that the empty, hungry part is probably key.

A 'reactive' coldness, perhaps.

I actually think that the mordite descriptions might tell us more about Outsider key words than the magic descriptions.

[wizard nelson]

i've had this idea, and i'm not sure if its original or not. but it seems to me using black magic twists you because magic is what weaves reality and the 'firmament' together. to use it against its design opens the way for the decadent energy of outside to get in you. sorta like a backlash effect. was waiting to make a theory thread on it after i could explain it better. but to summarise, black magic is related to outside energy and this is why it twists you, indeed why the laws were made originally. (harry being starborn gives him his natural affinity for dark magic IMO) could be way off, but i believe there is a connection. also seems like only mortals can use black magic,(or should i say use magic that is considered black? sidhe do things considered black magic in mortal hands without actually twinging their magic 'color') could this be because only mortals have choice? same with opening a summon from beyond.(not counting the fraud vampire who i don't consider immortal enough)

[Griffyn612]

You should add empty to your list. that’s how lord raith felt to harry when he has  outside protection

  The analysis is specifically looking for common terminology between Outsiders' magic description and mortal magic descriptions.  My hesitance to include "hungry"/"empty" is due to the lack of association with the Outsiders.  Mordite is described as empty and hungry, and consumes everything from our reality.  And Raith's magic is also listed as "empty".  But I don't think we have evidence in the books that Raith's magic immunity is tied to Outsiders.  There may have been a WoJ on it a while back, but I haven't read it recently.

It looks more like he's saying that it's doubtful they're infected really.

Doubtful that they're infected.  I'm convinced they're involved, but they may have avoided actual infection.  They seem to fall more into Duck's theories about mortals wielding Outsiders as a weapon. 

But the evidence was from DB.  Cowl was also badly injured at the end of that, and we haven't seen him properly in action since then.  So it's possible he's become infected by CD, but we don't know.