Cognitive dissonance? It's never what you expect the game to be.

[Radijs]

My best friend and I where discussing DFRP yesterday and he voiced a concern to me that I find very hard to place. And I'm wondering if anyone else might have encountered this phenomenon. And if so, what kind of effect has it had on your game and how did you deal with it?

The idea my friend has is that because you're playing a game based on these novels an inherent expectancy will exist with your players that these novels will have a direct impact on whatever you run in your games and vice versa, what the PC's do in a game can have a profound effect on the novels.
Also that you're playing in a world where there are all these heroes like Harry, Karrin, Bob, Michael, Mab, Titania etc. And that creates the expectation that you will interact with these characters at some point because the world is very small. Though it's harder for wizards with the Murphy effect you can get to nearly any place in the world within a day. So even if you set your game somewhere away from Chicago, the players can decide to pack up shop and move in to some of the appartments above Harry's own.

He thinks, this will inevitably lead to dissapointment among the players. Because once you start making your own ripples in the world you're going to change the setting so much that the original timeline of events no longer make sense. IE: During the war with the Red Court Mab bites the bullet so Harry won't become the winter knight but instead has to take up the coin or perform the darkhallow somehow.
Or when you're running the 'iconic' characters of the game as the GM the way you portray them will never be 'right' compared to how they act because of various reasons, mainly that the GM isn't going to be Jim Butcher and (s)he'll portray the characters colored by his or her own perceptions and ideas.

He figured that the only way to avoid these dissapointments would be to set the game in such a way that it would be impossible for us to meet any of these iconic characters by moving the time during which the game takes place forward or backwards in time to a point where Harry and his gang haven't been born yet or are already dead.

Though I can see his standpoint from an academic view point. I can't see it actually happening that these effects or feelings would ruin a game. Unless these iconics are used in such a ham-fisted way that displays them as 'the awesome guys you can never be'.

[Deadmanwalking]

Assuming you're running a game in a city other than Chicago and you aren't ridiculously more powerful than the game assumes...I don't think you can have that sort of impact on the world without active GM collusion. I mean, let's take killing Mab: the GM nees to set that up for it to even be possible, she's an immortal of godlike power. It's easy for the GM to just not have her show up, or not die if she does.

Which doesn't mean the impact you do have can't be meaningful. Maybe someone's doing a ritual that will kill all Wizards in the US and you stop 'em. Maybe your city would be taken over by the Fomor but you handle the problem. Maybe a lot of things. All of them cool.

And I don't give a damn about meeting named characters, I just want to play in the world and do cool things there. I don't think I'm alone in that.

[Lavecki121]

Yea. F' cannon. Play in your own world. It's way easier. If you want to use iconic characters make sure that people know it may be off cannon. I don't like playing cannon games mainly because one the next book comes out, things have changed.

For instance:

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If you were playing a pre changes game was heavy on the RCV you now find without any opposition and have to remake your enemies.

[Deadmanwalking]

I actually like canon games...just ones that take place nowhere near where canon does and are only tangentially related.

Non-canon definitely works too, though.

[UmbraLux]

Also that you're playing in a world where there are all these heroes like Harry, Karrin, Bob, Michael, Mab, Titania etc. And that creates the expectation that you will interact with these characters at some point because the world is very small.

As an 'expectation', no - I don't think this is the default.  We explicitly chose not to have iconic heroes involved in our games. 

He thinks, this will inevitably lead to dissapointment among the players. <snip>

Just set expectations up front.  (For more than just what novel characters may appear.)  It avoids all kinds of problems.

It's also worth remembering that many of the forces in the world aren't dependent on an individual.  Kill one of the queens and her mantle gets passed to her successor...who eventually becomes very like the original.  Coins and swords get passed and, on a smaller scale, so do positions. 

[JDK002]

Honestly, there's a very simple way to avoid this.  Don't use characters from the novels as regular npcs, and when you do use them, use them sparingly.  Using major characters has a lot of problems, namely that they tend to dominate every scene they are in.  Remember that the PCs are the heroes, they are they Harry Dresden, Karrin Myrphy, and Michael Carpenter of their city (assuming you're playing a high enough refresh game).

Also keep in mind the Dresdenverse has a lot of things happening all at once and is very easy to add your own lore to the game.  I've run 3 scenarios, not one has dealt with any of the major factions from the novels.  That will change when we manage to start up again, as two of my PCs backstories are tied into the Denarians.  So Nicodemus and at least one Knight of the Cross is bound to make a guest appearance.

TL;DR: Basically I suggest you don't insert your game or players into what happens in the novels.  Instead create your own stories using the dresdenverse as a backdrop.  Most importantly let the players know this.

[Radijs]

Okay perhaps killing Mab was a bad example. But there are other characters and other things that can happen that would mean that the books would take a very diffrent turn.

You've never encountered players that had trouble with things happening that would make the events in the books impossible?

So far I'm quit happy with the awnsers. While we where debating last night I had a hard time understanding that what he was worried for.

[Deadmanwalking]

Okay perhaps killing Mab was a bad example. But there are other characters and other things that can happen that would mean that the books would take a very diffrent turn.

Sure...but they still mostly involve GM collusion. Say they want to kill Harry...the GM never has to let them meet him. It's trivially easy to say it doesn't happen, actually.

You've never encountered players that had trouble with things happening that would make the events in the books impossible?

No. My games stay away from Chicago. Just like my Buffy game stayed away from California.

[JDK002]

It's also worth noting that due to concessions, characters don't die unless the GM wants them to.  So if you're hell bent on using characters from the books on a regular basis concessions are going to be your best friend.  It guarantees the players can beat down canon characters, but they will always live to fight another day.

[Mr. Death]

Okay perhaps killing Mab was a bad example. But there are other characters and other things that can happen that would mean that the books would take a very diffrent turn.

You've never encountered players that had trouble with things happening that would make the events in the books impossible?

So far I'm quit happy with the awnsers. While we where debating last night I had a hard time understanding that what he was worried for.

The second you start a game, you're already changing things from the canon. You don't read fan fiction expecting it to be exactly like the original, right? Neither should your players put too much expectation for the games to align perfectly with the books.

I mean, I'll use canon characters occasionally, but usually in the background, as quest givers, or as a force in the city (Maeve, Lily, and Fix showed up in my game when the party were investigating the Faerie Courts, and Lara showed up to plan and attend Inari's wedding), but that's about it.

Though Dresden might show up next time they have to deal with Winter...

[Magicpockets]

Our group handles it like this: we pick a timeline and a place. Anything that happened up till then is considered canon unless all involved agree on an alternative outcome. From that point on, the PCs actions may affect the storyline any way possible.

It's also worth noting that due to concessions, characters don't die unless the GM wants them to.  So if you're hell bent on using characters from the books on a regular basis concessions are going to be your best friend.  It guarantees the players can beat down canon characters, but they will always live to fight another day.

In my experience, those concessions need to offer substantial benefits or blackmail for the players to actually agree. Personally, I (as a player) prefer to kill off anyone who might be a potential recurring enemy later on.

[Theonlyspiral]

Our group handles it like this: we pick a timeline and a place. Anything that happened up till then is considered canon unless all involved agree on an alternative outcome. From that point on, the PCs actions may affect the storyline any way possible.

In my experience, those concessions need to offer substantial benefits or blackmail for the players to actually agree. Personally, I (as a player) prefer to kill off anyone who might be a potential recurring enemy later on.

That just seems like bad sportsmanship. Do your enemies do the same? If so your table sounds really intense.

[Radijs]

That just seems like bad sportsmanship. Do your enemies do the same? If so your table sounds really intense.

It's something of a genre-savyness that makes players choose the 'kill' option. In almost every story a bad guy that doesn't get double-tapped comes back to wreak havoc again.
They most often aren't Batman who lock the Joker back in Arkham Asylum knowing very well it's a revolving door prison.

[Magicpockets]

That just seems like bad sportsmanship. Do your enemies do the same? If so your table sounds really intense.

It might have come of stronger than I intended it to sound. Basically, ask yourself this: Is the concession appealing enough from an IC perspective? Do the PCs involved benefit more from letting the NPC live? If I can say yes to both, then I am likely to accept the concession.

As for the enemies, when I DM: A concession is, to me, a way of negotiating the terms of the losing side of a conflict. Emphasis on losing. It's about making the loss interesting and acceptable for all parties involved, not about wriggling out of an inherently unfavorable situation. I will talk with the players involved to find a solution that is fun for all involved, but what I absolutely will not do is accept a concession that cheats one side out of their victory. Also, I will drop more or less subtle hints about who plays for keeps, and if you go all in into a conflict with those and lose, I expect the concession to be really good.

Or, as the books did it:

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There's a reason Harry broke Cassius' legs

[JDK002]

Our group handles it like this: we pick a timeline and a place. Anything that happened up till then is considered canon unless all involved agree on an alternative outcome. From that point on, the PCs actions may affect the storyline any way possible.

In my experience, those concessions need to offer substantial benefits or blackmail for the players to actually agree. Personally, I (as a player) prefer to kill off anyone who might be a potential recurring enemy later on.

That is exactly why concessions are so important.  Remember that all parties involved have to agree on the outcome of a concession.  If the GM flat out says killing the character is off the table due to future plot development, then that's pretty much it.  The group has to come up with some other outcome.  At that point the GM is basically bribing the players to let the npc live.  A smart group will jump at that, as killing off an npc in such a way typically just means the GM creates a new npc to take it's place.