Law Talk

[Cadd]

On that topic: Do any law get a pass from a willing target? I'd think the Third Law would actually be possibly to work around, with informed consent, as that wouldn't be "invading", but the others can't really be worked around, can they?

[Tedronai]

Yeah, the 3rd Law is the only one that might reasonably be bypassed by 'consent' without some other finagling.

Some other Laws might be bypassed by not violating them directly yourself and instead creating a situation that allows the prospective subject to cause those effects to themselves (a potential canon example that was brought up recently on these boards might be a stationary wall of fire that someone chooses to step into, resulting in their prompt fiery death).  This is a contentious area of, at best, 'grey' magic.

[Lavecki121]

I don't recall that law's stance on non-humans, but the fact that the target is willing does not get you a pass.

I'm not sure any of the laws count for/against non humans

I reject any premise that labels (cosmic truth) Lawbreaker any who so much as types 'What is an Outsider?' into a google search.
The Wardens may enforce as they will, but that interpretation on the cosmic truth of the 7th Law leads only to absurdity.

I agree but I think the idea was the more knowledge about them in the world, the easier it is for them to get into our world. So nobody should learn it because then more outsiders would get in.

[Tedronai]

I agree but I think the idea was the more knowledge about them in the world, the easier it is for them to get into our world. So nobody should learn it because then more outsiders would get in.

Next character idea:
irredeemable warlock makes a habit of sneaking into White Court functions, screams out the name of powerful outsiders at the top of his lungs, uses Outsider sponsored magic to facilitate his escape, then laughs as the Wardens are forced to execute each other for their knowledge

[Lavecki121]

I assume you meant white council? If so that would be hilarious. You should totally do this 

EDIT: Better yet make him a mental mancer and have him implant all his knowledge on his victems.

[Tedronai]

I assume you meant white council?

Yes, my bad.

If so that would be hilarious. You should totally do this 

EDIT: Better yet make him a mental mancer and have him implant all his knowledge on his victems.

My point being that I do not believe such things should warp an individual's soul in such a way as would be represented by Lawbreaker.
Fundamentally, I do not believe Lawbreaker should be able to be imposed by one on another.

[Lavecki121]

I understand. I feel the same way. I was simply stating how I assumed the book was conveying that.

There is a reason Mab had the Grimm Tales written you know 

[Tedronai]

You insinuate that Mab,

(click to show/hide)

reality's immune response against Outsiders

, had a book published to diseminate information about Outsiders that would increase Outsiders' influence in this reality?

[blackstaff67]

The White Council disseminates books about powerful rituals and the like to reduce the power of said rituals.  I also think that the Powers contacted are in our Reality (they carry membership cards). 

Releasing a Father of all Necronomicons regarding Outsiders, on the other hand, would probably be A Bad Thing, assuming the rules are correct.

[Lavecki121]

What Is that story that Thomas stars in. It is in side jobs, read that.

This

You insinuate that Mab,

(click to show/hide)

reality's immune response against Outsiders

, had a book published to diseminate information about Outsiders that would increase Outsiders' influence in this reality?

is not what I was saying

[Mrmdubois]

That book was for maintaining a fae presence in our reality, not "Outsiders for Dummies."

[Lavecki121]

Right. That was my point. If a book like that existed for outsiders it would have the same effect. IMO.

[Troy]

I have a question: Does the Law apply to every mortal practitioner? I know it applies to the White Council. Do they consider their jurisdiction to include every human being that practicing magic in any way, shape, or form? So, you have a warlock -- say, a psychomancer -- completely unaware of the White Council. One day a Warden shows up on his doorstep and decapitates him. Is that kosher? Do they get a trial? An education? Doom of Damocles? A reprieve because of their ignorance?

What about people that aren't quite human but can do magic? Obviously if someone falls under the auspices of the Fae or the Courts of Vampires, they consider that their problem. But what about some a changeling or some other Scion that chooses to remain human or something, but they are a spellcaster. Do they fall under the White Council's jurisdiction? Are they "mortal practitioners?"

[Lavecki121]

Short answer: Yes; Yes; Yes; No; No; No; No; Yes; Yes

The last two are IMO and there may be some debate on that. The difference I see is that in your example the changling made a choice to stay human so thats why I went with yes.

[Tedronai]

If a Changeling who is also a Practitioner Chooses to be Human, then there is no longer any doubt as to jurisdiction, and the Wardens may feel quite free to chop away.

A Changeling, by definition, has not Chosen to be Human.  They have, at most, chosen to remain a half-kind.


Note the capitalization, there.  It's important.