Author Topic: "Blade Magic"  (Read 7875 times)

Offline Crion

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"Blade Magic"
« on: January 22, 2013, 04:30:44 AM »
It's been a long while since I've been here, so sorry for starting a new random thread.

So, here's the situation: a player of mine wishes to have a character that blends sword and sorcery together for a more fantasy-oriented game that I am using the DFRPG (and FATECore) for.

He is looking for something that's closer to energizing the blade with an element/power and placing attacks. I mentioned using magic to place a maneuver and tag/invoke it, but that's the flavor he's going for. He's more for the "Coat the blade with energy and go to town."

I know most people here are against the idea of a persisting damage effect (use the defensive power rules and apply them to damage; i.e. 4 shifts of power becomes Weapon:2 for 2 rounds), but I'm hitting a wall for other options.

I was thinking of using the rules from FATECore's magic system (specifically the Callers: having it as a one-point power with one element, and do a flat Skill roll for the shifts of power he gets for an action or two), or simply making it a stunt with flavor text, but I'm not certain if either one fits without being unbalanced.


So, anyone run into something similar? If so, how did you hack the rules to make it work without going over the top?

Any input would be greatly appreciated.

--Crion
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Offline Tedronai

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Re: "Blade Magic"
« Reply #1 on: January 22, 2013, 04:38:31 AM »
Check out the Custom Powers Master List thread on this forum.
Find the entry for 'Natural Weaponry'.
Re-skin the power and appropriate upgrades to represent him imbuing power into/around a weapon rather than merely creating or having the weapon as part of his person.
Leave the 'spellcasting' part of what he's doing purely in the narrative.

That'd be my suggestion, anyway.
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Offline Crion

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Re: "Blade Magic"
« Reply #2 on: January 22, 2013, 04:48:55 AM »
Check out the Custom Powers Master List thread on this forum.
Find the entry for 'Natural Weaponry'.
Re-skin the power and appropriate upgrades to represent him imbuing power into/around a weapon rather than merely creating or having the weapon as part of his person.
Leave the 'spellcasting' part of what he's doing purely in the narrative.

That'd be my suggestion, anyway.

With that suggestion, are you saying he should be able to ramp up a sword he wields by that amount (i.e. taking the -1 ability to add 2 to the Weapon rating) or simply replace it (by taking the add-on power to have Weapon:4 instead)?

I can throw it out there, but it doesn't seem to really ring true in my head. I'll throw it at him tomorrow and see what he thinks.

Anyone else have a suggestion?
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Offline Tedronai

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Re: "Blade Magic"
« Reply #3 on: January 22, 2013, 04:52:41 AM »
I'd say replace it, but that's me.

edit: Even the weapon:2 version would still allow him substantially more versatility in the types of maneuvers he could perform, as well as potentially serve to satisfy the Catch for certain creatures (red or black court would be relatively easily done if he can imbue his weapons with a fiery aura)
« Last Edit: January 22, 2013, 04:56:27 AM by Tedronai »
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Offline Crion

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Re: "Blade Magic"
« Reply #4 on: January 22, 2013, 05:01:12 AM »
I'd say replace it, but that's me.

That's what I was thinking as well, but at this point, he'd be doing the exact same (or better, depending on the weapon) as if he did the maneuver.

I was also contemplating the use of Evocation as a "better of Weapon Damage or Shifts of Power" as a spell. While it is the hated "persistent damage" that people here speak against, a character with 5 Conviction could only pull off, at best and with only one mental stress, a Weapon:4 for one exchange (the next attack if the GM is friendly) or a Weapon:3 for two exchanges, putting him at the level of a broadsword damage wise.

That's pretty much all I have at the moment until I hear back from said player tomorrow (if my luck holds).
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Offline Deadmanwalking

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Re: "Blade Magic"
« Reply #5 on: January 22, 2013, 05:08:00 AM »
Alternately, you could just use standard Evocation, with the attacks flavored as sword-strokes and the sword as a Focus Item. This necessitates some investment in Discipline and Conviction, and has limited uses per scene, but can make for some potentially extremely deadly attacks with a decent investment.

Offline Crion

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Re: "Blade Magic"
« Reply #6 on: January 22, 2013, 05:12:14 AM »
Alternately, you could just use standard Evocation, with the attacks flavored as sword-strokes and the sword as a Focus Item. This necessitates some investment in Discipline and Conviction, and has limited uses per scene, but can make for some potentially extremely deadly attacks with a decent investment.

Glad to see you're still around, Deadmanwalking.

I threw the same note to the player in an e-mail when I explained the previous notes. I personally like that approach, even when not blended in my own, so I'm hoping the player goes with the narration side and sees that as a good idea.

Of course, other suggestions are always welcome, especially since I'm working on putting together a few FATE/DFRPG games for an anime convention in two months, and getting people hyped up is always useful!
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Offline Hick Jr

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Re: "Blade Magic"
« Reply #7 on: January 22, 2013, 05:12:33 AM »
I believe there was a "Transcendant Swordsmanship" sponsored magic that seems to be what you need here. It's in the master thread.
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Offline Tedronai

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Re: "Blade Magic"
« Reply #8 on: January 22, 2013, 05:14:26 AM »
The 'persistent damage effect' that gets spoken against particularly vociferously on these boards is one where the spell lingers on the target, dealing damage.  This can incredibly easily break the action economy, as well as result in a dramatic magnification of the practitioner's already typically superior offensive capabilities while circumventing their single glaring weakness (sustained activity is incredibly draining).
One where the spell enhances the weapon value of a mundane weapon, but where that enhanced weapon must then be used to attack normally, without the benefit of control bonuses from specializations and foci, on the other hand, is likely to result in an underpowered ability set (at least in my estimation).

Alternatively, you could simply have him take conventional spellcasting powers, entirely unmodified, have his attacks with 'imbued weapons' be resolved as normal spells, and then simply compel him on a regular basis when it would otherwise be to his advantage to attack from afar as other practitioners do. (ninja'd by Deadman)

A third option might be to represent his powers with Enchanted Items, which would give him the high weapon rating but comparatively unimpressive attack bonus that you would expect of a magically-imbued swordsman.  The downside here being that his abilities would then be tied to particular weapons/objects.
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Offline Mr. Death

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Re: "Blade Magic"
« Reply #9 on: January 22, 2013, 06:04:41 PM »
Alternately, you could just use standard Evocation, with the attacks flavored as sword-strokes and the sword as a Focus Item. This necessitates some investment in Discipline and Conviction, and has limited uses per scene, but can make for some potentially extremely deadly attacks with a decent investment.
That's pretty much how I've run characters who do this kind of thing, and it's worked very well so far. One additional suggestion: A stunt allowing the character to use Weapons instead of Discipline for those kinds of evocations.

Other things you can do is have the character take rote spells to self-maneuver the blade, or as blocks.
« Last Edit: January 22, 2013, 06:09:43 PM by Mr. Death »
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Offline ways and means

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Re: "Blade Magic"
« Reply #10 on: January 22, 2013, 06:20:13 PM »
TRANSCENDENT SWORDSMANSHIP [-4]
Description: Legends speak of heroes who fought dragons with nothing but sword and mail. These heroes fought creatures with nearly endless power and some of them actually won. Transcendent Swordsmanship channels the power of the heroes of old and uses it to do the impossible with swords.
Sponsor: Transcendent Swordsmanship is sponsored by the spirits, or perhaps the legends, of long-dead heroes.
Agenda: Transcendent Swordsmanship drives its user to destroy evil and to prove his own worth as a hero.
Evocation: Evocations cast with Transcendent Swordsmanship often resemble air or metal evocations, and they almost always emulate sword techniques.
Thaumaturgy: Transcendent Swordsmanship allows its user to cast rituals that tap into the legends of dead heroes, as well as rituals that summon spiritual warriors.
Evothaum: Transcendent Swordsmanship does not grant the ability to use Thaumaturgy with the speed and methods of Evocation.
Extra Benefits: A character with Transcendent Swordsmanship replaces his Conviction skill with his Might skill and his Discipline skill with his Weapons skill for the purposes of spellcasting.
Note: Foci made to boost Transcendent Swordsmanship spells are almost always swords. That being said, there's nothing stopping Transcendent Swordsmanship from becoming Transcendent Axemanship in the hands of a specific character.

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Offline Mr. Death

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Re: "Blade Magic"
« Reply #11 on: January 22, 2013, 06:23:39 PM »
Also a consideration: While the sword will certainly be a focus item, you might take it a step further and make it an Item of Power as well, with some additional powers (Inhuman Strength, for one).

Actually, come to think of it I wrote some rules up for an extended-duration attack of the type you're describing. Basically, you would cast it like a duration block, and it would have a persistent weapon rating, but each round you'd still have to roll control to both target it and control the power, with the risk of backlash or fallout each round. And you'd still have to make that control roll if you're not actually using the attack for a given round.

I'll go see if I can round up that old thread.
« Last Edit: January 22, 2013, 06:26:54 PM by Mr. Death »
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Offline Mr. Death

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Re: "Blade Magic"
« Reply #12 on: January 22, 2013, 06:31:30 PM »
Found it! Hope this helps.
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Offline Crion

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Re: "Blade Magic"
« Reply #13 on: January 22, 2013, 08:57:42 PM »
Found it! Hope this helps.

That's pretty much one of the thoughts I had in mind (the other was the damage boost which would get broken). I'll send it to the player and see what he thinks.


TRANSCENDENT SWORDSMANSHIP [-4]
Description: Legends speak of heroes who fought dragons with nothing but sword and mail. These heroes fought creatures with nearly endless power and some of them actually won. Transcendent Swordsmanship channels the power of the heroes of old and uses it to do the impossible with swords.
Sponsor: Transcendent Swordsmanship is sponsored by the spirits, or perhaps the legends, of long-dead heroes.
Agenda: Transcendent Swordsmanship drives its user to destroy evil and to prove his own worth as a hero.
Evocation: Evocations cast with Transcendent Swordsmanship often resemble air or metal evocations, and they almost always emulate sword techniques.
Thaumaturgy: Transcendent Swordsmanship allows its user to cast rituals that tap into the legends of dead heroes, as well as rituals that summon spiritual warriors.
Evothaum: Transcendent Swordsmanship does not grant the ability to use Thaumaturgy with the speed and methods of Evocation.
Extra Benefits: A character with Transcendent Swordsmanship replaces his Conviction skill with his Might skill and his Discipline skill with his Weapons skill for the purposes of spellcasting.
Note: Foci made to boost Transcendent Swordsmanship spells are almost always swords. That being said, there's nothing stopping Transcendent Swordsmanship from becoming Transcendent Axemanship in the hands of a specific character.

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This one is actually pretty cool looking. I may have to keep it in mind for a later character/NPC.
My only question: how would you handle the summoning of the Spirits? I know you normally have to beat whatever spirit you want to control into submission somehow, so would you do the same here?




So far, great ideas here. Anyone else have anything to add?
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Offline Sanctaphrax

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Re: "Blade Magic"
« Reply #14 on: January 22, 2013, 10:54:21 PM »
Alternate Magical Paradigm might be appropriate. It's on the list.

And summoning heroic spirits with Transcendent Swordsmanship would use normal summoning rules.