Author Topic: mythological figures we'd like to see  (Read 48652 times)

Offline Quantus

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Re: mythological figures we'd like to see
« Reply #120 on: January 10, 2013, 04:33:18 PM »
Does he? I thought Erl was a goblin Sidhe just like [CD Spoilers]
(click to show/hide)
You are confusing terms.  Goblins, Sidhe, and Malks are different all types of Fae, but are distinct from each other.  Cait Sith, nor any other malks, are ever referred to a Sidhe.  Sidhe are the beautiful human looking ones.
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Offline TheCuriousFan

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Re: mythological figures we'd like to see
« Reply #121 on: January 10, 2013, 04:39:18 PM »
You are confusing terms.  Goblins, Sidhe, and Malks are different all types of Fae, but are distinct from each other.  Cait Sith, nor any other malks, are ever referred to a Sidhe.  Sidhe are the beautiful human looking ones.

*readies rpg quotes about Santa, Grimalkin the Malk and Eldest Brother Gruff and quotes about the whole Side thing in general*
« Last Edit: January 10, 2013, 04:49:35 PM by TheCuriousFan »
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Offline Quantus

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Re: mythological figures we'd like to see
« Reply #122 on: January 10, 2013, 04:41:13 PM »
*awaits said quotes since Im not very familiar with the RPG text*
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Offline Electric MacButters

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Re: mythological figures we'd like to see
« Reply #123 on: January 10, 2013, 04:48:39 PM »
I want to see Harry team up with the Flying Spagetti Monster.  8)
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Offline TheCuriousFan

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Re: mythological figures we'd like to see
« Reply #124 on: January 10, 2013, 04:52:21 PM »
*awaits said quotes since Im not very familiar with the RPG text*

Here you go.

Grimalkin quotes:

Quote from: Our World Page 152
Grimalkin is a Sidhe of the malks (pages 49 and 47) of faerie-kind and a member of the Winter Court.

Quote from: Our World Page 47
Grimalkin (see page 152), of Maeve’s Court, may be a Sidhe of malk-lineage.

Santa quote:

Quote from: Our World Page 50
The “Wyld Courts”: There are a couple powerful Sidhe on par with the Faerie Queens—the Erlking is one of them, and it’s rumored—DON’T LAUGH!—that Santa Claus (a brownie Sidhe) may be another.

Eldest Brother Gruff quote:

Quote from: Our World Page 151
I wonder if Eldest is a gruff Sidhe. Seems likely.

Sidhe quote:

Quote from: Our World Page 20
Sidhe

Among the faerie, Sidhe is a state of being that is somewhat political and somewhat biological. A Sidhe has all of the abilities of its faerie type, raised to greater heights of power. The Sidhe are the aristocracy of Faerie, and that mindset must be considered when dealing with them, regardless of which Court—or no Court—they are associated with.

And a reasonably relevant WoJ.

Quote
#150 Is Toot-toot’s increase in size due to his actions, or the title and followers he has acquired doing Harry’s bidding?”
It’s due to /Harry’s/ actions, mostly. Toot done hitched his star to Harry’s wagon. As a result, he’s taken actions he never would have taken on his own, some of which had major consequences. Toot has effectively become a much more powerful being than he was as an independent dewdrop faerie. The physical growth is a reflection of that fact.
I mean gosh, where do you think the Sidhe came from in the first place?

http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php/topic,21772.msg947681.html#msg947681
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Offline Ms Duck

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Re: mythological figures we'd like to see
« Reply #125 on: January 10, 2013, 05:15:21 PM »
'aoi sie' = people under the mounds; 'sidhe' the contraction,lit means mounds. it refers to the entire class of 'noble fey'.

what is and isnt one may be a bit fluid. traditionaly, it meant the celtic gods; later, it got thrown in with fae, faerie, elves...

what connection exists between the 'sidhe' and the 'vanir' (their equivalent in the eddas) if any in the DF has yet to be clear.

IMO, its quite possible Jim may not have a specific rule of who is and who isnt one; as the mythology itself is rather muddled
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Offline Quantus

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Re: mythological figures we'd like to see
« Reply #126 on: January 10, 2013, 05:17:50 PM »
Damn that's interesting, because it directly contradicts the usage of the term Sidhe everywhere in the actual books.  That makes it sound like "Sidhe" denotes status among any given type of fae creature, whereas the books refer to the Sidhe as a particular type, though granted they are a particular type that is in charge of the Courts. 
Quote from: DB
"The being you ask me about [The Erlking] is to goblins as I am to the Sidhe. A ruler. A master of their kind. Devious, cunning, strong, and swift. He wields dominion over the spirits of fallen hunters."

Quote from: PG
a member of the Sidhe, a tall, inhumanly lovely woman, her appearance one of nigh perfection.

Quote from: SK
These are the Sidhe. They're some of the most beautiful creatures there are.
Quote from: SK
Her blond hair cleared out to Sidhe white
Aurora turned to me, as fast as any of the other Sidhe,
(indicates specific physical characteristics attributed to Sidhe)



Although to be fair in many places back in SK, Sidhe and Fae are used completely interchangeably, without any distinction of type /or/ status, though it is always used to indicate the Courts rather than any WyldFae. 

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Offline Ms Duck

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Re: mythological figures we'd like to see
« Reply #127 on: January 10, 2013, 05:29:44 PM »
Damn that's interesting, because it directly contradicts the usage of the term Sidhe everywhere in the actual books.  That makes it sound like "Sidhe" denotes status among any given type of fae creature, whereas the books refer to the Sidhe as a particular type, though granted they are a particular type that is in charge of the Courts.   (indicates specific physical characteristics attributed to Sidhe)



Although to be fair in many places back in SK, Sidhe and Fae are used completely interchangeably, without any distinction of type /or/ status, though it is always used to indicate the Courts rather than any WyldFae.

this is where woj, if we ever get some, comes in. The books are harrys pov, and somewhat edited. the rpg is will's writing. both are deliberately 'flawed narrators'.

Iago once noted that the prg should be considered 'an alternate universe' to the books, as changes had to be made.
Yeah, but Germans and Hungarians don't pull people's theories out of their sockets when they're challenged.  Ducks are known to do that.


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Offline Socratov

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Re: mythological figures we'd like to see
« Reply #128 on: January 10, 2013, 07:51:36 PM »
Besides, if the Sidhe are the nobles of Fearie, who says that goblins are noble? I mean the Erlking might just not be a noble, but a very powerful fey ruling over the 'commoners' i.e. goblins...
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Offline Arjan

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Re: mythological figures we'd like to see
« Reply #129 on: January 10, 2013, 08:01:27 PM »
Besides, if the Sidhe are the nobles of Fearie, who says that goblins are noble? I mean the Erlking might just not be a noble, but a very powerful fey ruling over the 'commoners' i.e. goblins...
Which makes him a king, a noble. Being noble is about power.
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Offline Quantus

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Re: mythological figures we'd like to see
« Reply #130 on: January 10, 2013, 08:02:43 PM »
Besides, if the Sidhe are the nobles of Fearie, who says that goblins are noble? I mean the Erlking might just not be a noble, but a very powerful fey ruling over the 'commoners' i.e. goblins...
Well, in the usage of the books the Sidhe are the Noble of Summer and Winter, but it was also indicated that they were a ruling race, rather than "Sidhe" being a term to denote Power; for example, Mab first introduces herself as Queen of the Winter Court of Sidhe.  The Erlking is the Top Dog of the Goblins, but is still a Wyldfae and outside of the political Court structure. 
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Offline 123456789blaaa

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Re: mythological figures we'd like to see
« Reply #131 on: January 11, 2013, 12:21:42 AM »
As you said Quantus "in many places back in SK, Sidhe and Fae are used completely interchangeably, without any distinction of type /or/ status". The most probable explanation here is that Jim changed his mind later on in the series (SK was pretty early after all).

I don't get why them being beautiful contradicts them beings like Cat Sith being among them. Cat Sith is probably pretty hot...if you're a malk  ;).

My interpretation is that the Sidhe are exemplars and rulers of their particular Fae type,  so there's only one Sidhe of each type. Looking back on the quotes this seems less likely.

I think that Mab and Lea are Sidhe Little Folk. This fits with this WoJ:

Quote
Q:  How big will Toot get?
A:  Depends on how much influence he has in the world.  That’s how the sidhe gain their size and power.  Mab wasn’t always as big as she is now.

Mab was also (to my knowledge) first mentioned in Romeo and Juliet in the speech by Mercutio. He says she's "In shape no bigger than an agate-stone" (The full speech:
(click to show/hide)

Although Mab is supposed to have been the only Winter Queen and the Fae are supposed to be ancient so...

Also, here is another WoJ that plainly states that Little Folk can become Sidhe:

Quote
With all the things Toot Toot and the Za Lord's guard have done that made a difference, and with Toot getting bigger, is that going to upset the balance in the Summer court?
The answer is no, because they are not Summer anyway, they are wildfae.  And everybody over in summer is going to blame Harry for everything they do.  They regard them as a tool and Harry is the guy holding it.  Harry would tell you that he's probably the tool but...  Anyway Toot Toot's been growing because that's where the Sidhe came from to begin with.  They weren't always all tall and glamorous, they kind of got that way. 


EDIT: In Cold Days
(click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: January 11, 2013, 12:25:10 AM by 123456789blaaa »
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Offline mrbrinks

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Re: mythological figures we'd like to see
« Reply #132 on: January 11, 2013, 01:00:20 AM »
Loki - Harry has to repay Odin somehow. I could see Jim having A LOT of fun with him.

Offline Ben de Wal

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Re: mythological figures we'd like to see
« Reply #133 on: January 11, 2013, 01:05:45 AM »


I think that Mab and Lea are Sidhe Little Folk. This fits with this WoJ:

M
Although Mab is supposed to have been the only Winter Queen and the Fae are supposed to be ancient so...

Also, here is another WoJ that plainly states that Little Folk can become Sidhe:
 

EDIT: In Cold Days
(click to show/hide)
  but mab can make her self as big or as little as she wants

Offline mithrandirthewhite

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Re: mythological figures we'd like to see
« Reply #134 on: January 11, 2013, 05:10:34 PM »
For Mab's statement about being ruler of the Sidhe could be that her court is soley the nobility of the Unseelie and Fae of greater power, with Lady having more influence over the Little Folk and lesser Fae.
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