Connections pt. 2: Suspect for SF-FM-BR-LH (Cold Days Spoilers)

[lilylis]

Luccio as a suspect …Could it explain why Mab sent the hobs to the train station in SmF-were they after Luccio, not the Archive?

  I have wondered about/suspected both Elaine and Luccio at various times in the Dresden series. I'm just not certain about either wizard. However,  if Luccio was indeed guilty then Rashid would seem to be a  accomplice and Im not willing to accept that possibility...but then that would be the ultimate treachery.
As for the hobs, Mab more or less admits to Harry that she sent the hobs for the Archive 

[Cenphx]

Well, the reason I thought something specific was going on with Thomas was because she referred to Lara as 'Raith's second in command', Inari as 'Raith's favorite' and Thomas as the one who betrayed us. Someone mentioned it could be something with Thomas helping Harry at the GP party, but that doesnt work for me because they were gunning for Thomas at that party, it could hardly be considered a betrayal for him to fight back.  It may be nothing, but Im definitely going to keep my eyes open for any more warnings signs between Mavra and Thomas. You've been saying for a while that the Black Court was behind more of this than anyone thought--now, because of all the good stuff in this thread, I'm starting to see it.

[rad]

Seeing as people are going off on the whole Mavra thing I will post my opinion but it only goes so far as the most easily observable stuff in the books:

I say that Mavra is not Black Council.  The Black Council struck a deal with the Reds so that they would attack Edinburgh when everyone was forted up.  Mavra could have blackmailed Harry for any number of things that would have made it easier for Cowl to become a demi-god.  Instead Mavra did something that would make Harry fight them.  Also, if Mavra were black council they would have gone ahead and used the Darkhallow however many times and there would be a dozen Kemmlers running around. 

Mavra may have been at the ball and instrumental in certain things but I think that she is actively against Nemesis.

[123456789blaaa]

As you said Cenphx, Cowl says in DB that he wants to see why Harry makes the wardens so nervous. Wouldn't he have known if he had been involved involved in the events of SF and FM? Even if you don't think that the events of SF and FM don't demonstrate that, I think he would have chosen a different choice of words.

I'm not saying it's impossible or even unlikely that he was involved, I just wanted to point this out once again.

Also, Harry says that Vamp wizards do not draw from the same pool of power that normal wizards do. Instead they draw from the same "greasy" pool of power that necromancers draw from.

@GrandPanjandrum: that is some fantastic, indepth theorizing you got goin on there. Kudos!

[wizard nelson]

does no one remember that luccio was set to take the fall for lafortier's murder before morgan accidentally walked in on it? technically luccio was to be put DOWN right there.. iirc luccio opposed merlin and morgan trying to dismiss dresden as warden and take him for interrogation as a red court spy. WAG merlin was the other one with peabody on DR. if luccio's set up had worked he would have been free to act against dresden having placed his sock puppet morgan as new leader of the wardens. couple of corroborative clue's, merlin was described as having a silent insanity about him, he demanded he find the real culprit, luccio was sent to harry directly afterwards, if harry hadn't had such a blindspot for women he'd have realised same as molly. no one actually expected him to catch peabody. also merlin getting that 'shark gaze' at peabody was a metaphoric clue, sharks eat their wounded. merlin was preparing to 'eat' peabody rather than let his own status be comprised.. more on this all later when i canwrangle it

[lilylis]

As you said Cenphx, Cowl says in DB that he wants to see why Harry makes the wardens so nervous. Wouldn't he have known if he had been involved involved in the events of SF and FM? Even if you don't think that the events of SF and FM don't demonstrate that, I think he would have chosen a different choice of words.

Cowl could have set things in motion in SF and FM and then just stepped back not monitoring the events that closely....moving on to other trouble making. The purpose was to stir things up between around the borders of the NN. He could accomplish that even if someone stopped those involved after a bit. As Cowl, he probably suspected the Wardens would eventually get involved....he didn't have to keep track that closely.

[123456789blaaa]

Cowl could have set things in motion in SF and FM and then just stepped back not monitoring the events that closely....moving on to other trouble making. The purpose was to stir things up between around the borders of the NN. He could accomplish that even if someone stopped those involved after a bit. As Cowl, he probably suspected the Wardens would eventually get involved....he didn't have to keep track that closely.

Yeah, I thought of something similar...still I think we should keep it in mind.

[wizard nelson]

ahhh but the key clue in what he says is he's had connections with wardens saying harry is worrysome implying both he's not a warden and he's in a position to talk business with wardens.

[lilylis]

Yeah, I thought of something similar...still I think we should keep it in mind.

agreed

[wizard nelson]

 >:(so no discussion on my luccio was real target post? granted it wasn't discussed much in the book. but the entire book harry is busy postulating about why someone would frame morgan and its repercussions.. he doesn't find out til the end luccio was the frame and no theoretical whys come up after that. it seems largely overlooked by the luccio is evil shippers...

[Cenphx]

Whoever was involved withthe FBI agents didnt do it in a hands off fashion like they did with Sells. I have to go back and look at the notes I pulled from FM to get the precise quote, but I believe it was after Denton started killing people he was warned about the WC and Harry. There was definite interaction between he and the person who gave him the magic. I remember this specifically because it was at odds with how Sells was left on his own. 

[wizard nelson]

Whoever was involved withthe FBI agents didnt do it in a hands off fashion like they did with Sells. I have to go back and look at the notes I pulled from FM to get the precise quote, but I believe it was after Denton started killing people he was warned about the WC and Harry. There was definite interaction between he and the person who gave him the magic. I remember this specifically because it was at odds with how Sells was left on his own.

you take notes lmao...  comment on luccio being the real target or i shall smite thee!

oh and they were warned when getting the belts iirc. plus maybe they were warned specifically because of the events in SF?

[Cenphx]

I started writing something on your Luccio comments but stopped because 1) I need to reread TC because I wasnt positive about what I was saying and 2) the reply was getting waaaay too long. So im thinking I will work on a  'is Luccio evil thread' and shore up all the stuff I touched on in my WAG part of the OP. Save your point about Luccio in TC and we can try to hash it out.   But re: Denton-im nearly positive he was given additional info *after* he was given the belts.

[Ben de Wal]

you take notes lmao...  comment on luccio being the real target or i shall smite thee!

oh and they were warned when getting the belts iirc. plus maybe they were warned specifically because of the events in SF?

i can agree with you that  luccio being the real target in tc , but  i think the is more to the story then that  she had been with harry for over a year,  so the question is  why get rid of a tool no one suspects unless that tools job is done? so what did she do to harry that  she wasn't need any more?

[wizard nelson]

yea i've been skimming TC recently. thought it odd nobody comments on luccio being the real target. morgan was an accident. lol one i think backfired on peabody and probably the merlin spectacularly.. it explains why the merlin is going silently insane over whats going down.