Morgana Le Fay (includes CD spoilers)

[knnn]

It had occurred to me that one person that we heard much about is Morgana Le Fay.

Facts:
1) She definitely existed in the in the Dresden universe at one point. 
2) It's her athame that caused Lea's craziness.

Very likely true
3) The "Le Fay" moniker is currently used as an honorific, to denote someone who travels a lot in faerie.  Morgana was either "Le Fay" because she traveled a lot (like Maggie Sr.), or maybe the title was originally introduced in honor of Morgana.  Either way, it's safe to assume she had her Ways.
4) Lea (and WoJ) say that the Athame is power because of who owned it.  I think it is safe to assume Morgana was a very powerful witch.

Speculation
5) In the myths she is associated with Merlin, usually cast as his apprentice, usually as an antagonist.  Given that her athame apparently passed infection along to Lea, it certainly sounds possible that she was infected at some point. 
6) Given that Merlin seems to be a "good guy", it is possible that Morgana was always bad.  Either that, or she had good intentions but was infected.
7) Given Merlin's mastery of more technologically advanced magic, I wonder if the same might be true for Morgana.
WoJ is that Merlin is "sorta alive".  What about Morgana?

And finally the WAG:   
- Morgana was a great NN traveller.  In her travels she is the first person to run across Nemesis.  Perhaps she found him Outside, perhaps she ran across his prison somewhere.  In any case, she is the first true infected person.  Bad things start happening (maybe a mini apocalypse). 

- Merlin (her mentor/lover/etc.) finally shuts down the bad guys by creating Demonreach, traps a lot of the Old Gods, and generally saves humanity.  As an aside, he also creates the White Council (with it's anti-Outsider Laws).

- Ok, this sounds a little too much like "The Magician's Apprentice", but maybe Merlin deliberately traps both Morgana and himself inside Demonreach in the hope that someone will eventually be able to cure Nemesis corruption? 

(click to show/hide)

Didn't Nic Cage help with the Dresden Files TV show somehow? maybe he stole some ideas from Jim's secret notes?

- Nemesis isn't completely beaten (Maybe Merlin wasn't a Starborn), but he has been trapped/slowed down.  Fast forward a couple of centuries, and a new wizard named "Le Fay" comes across Nemesis' prison and gets infected (or maybe manages to escape).  Realizing the trouble she unleashed, she decides to create a weapon that will finally end the threat -- a "Starborn", a wizard that has special powers over Outsiders.

[rekshek]

Interesting, this requires further research and re-reading.

[Ms Duck]

just a thought- id say go back much further than la morte de arthur which is where your evrsion of morgan le fey comes from. the charchter is much, much older, and tied into the legends of the sidhe- in several of the original versions, shes not a villain at all, but the good sister of.. Mab.

shes also the mother of Oberon, whom we know also existed.

the reason for sugesting this is Jim is uber geek royale with cheese, and is very very very likely to have read the originals at one point.

 

if you get bored, i made a refernce guide to the similarities between Harry and the classic King Arthur stories Here

(it needs updating, as we now have a lot more WOJ on oberon and Morgan Le Fey)

[Elegast]

Interesting.

It reminded me of that WOJ:

Maggie LeFay, Morgan LeFay, is that a generational name, are they related? 
No, the “LeFay” is something that gets added as an honorific in the wizarding community, it’s one of those kind of mixed names that you give somebody that is sort of a name that she’s earned, so it’s a bit of status, and it also means you’re insane. Which everybody thought Harry’s mom was, being a big-time explorer of Ways and hanging out with Faeries and generally kind of doing things that most wizards considered to be pretty crazily, stupidly dangerous. When you’re somebody who can live for three or four hundred years as long as nothing goes wrong, you tend to be a little conservative, really, you get a lot of benefit from that. And certainly, in Maggie’s case, she was bucking the trend, and we’ll probably get into a little bit more of why she was doing that later in the books.

So Morgana was probably infected (after all her athame was a vector for it).

Concerning the 'Sorcerer's apprentice'... Nic Cage may have read the complete synopsis of the Dresden Files. There is one WOJ on the subject after all.

Other WOJ about Merlin:

) Well, in point of fact, there /was/ a specific Merlin in the Dresden Files universe. He was a critical figure, back in the day, so much so that when he disappeared, his shoes /had/ to be filled.

No real coherent thought at the moment, but I think it strengthens the 'Merlin is trapped in DR' hypothesis.

[wyltok]

This is a very good catch, knnn! I agree that Morgana was likely patient zero for Nemesis.

Which of course, begs the question: why did Lea agree to receive the Athame in Grave Peril? It almost seems as though Lea (and by extension, the Winter Court) was not aware that Morgana had been infected by Nemesis all those years ago.

On the other hand, Titania knew Nemesis' name. Maybe Morgana spent her time with Summer instead of Winter?

[knnn]

This is a very good catch, knnn! I agree that Morgana was likely patient zero for Nemesis.

Which of course, begs the question: why did Lea agree to receive the Athame in Grave Peril? It almost seems as though Lea (and by extension, the Winter Court) was not aware that Morgana had been infected by Nemesis all those years ago.

On the other hand, Titania knew Nemesis' name. Maybe Morgana spent her time with Summer instead of Winter?

In PG Lea mentions:

I grew too arrogant with the power I held.  I thought I could overcome what stalks us all.

Given our current understand, she may well be referencing Nemesis.  It's not obvious from the text when she grew arrogant.  Maybe she felt powerful enough during GP (e.g. because of her bargain with Starborn Harry, or because she was in possession of Ammorachius) to be able to accept the Athame without being corrupted?

Here's an interesting side-thought.  In GP we have the interesting point that Lea burns Thomas when she kisses him (leading to all sorts of speculation as to who Lea might be in love with).  Thing is, this happens before Lea acquires the Athame, and hence while she is still in possession of Ammorachius.  Maybe the fact that she burned Thomas was a WG warning to Lea that she is dealing with items/powers than can corrupt her -- one that she ignored.

[prince lotore]

As per my theory Lefay is a mask she has worn in the distant and more recent past.  She just wanted her old knife back and thought she was stron enough to beat nemesis

[madness]

I always sort of figured that they poisoned/corrupted the Athame just before giving it to Lea.

I guess that it always being infected is possible but I don't really see how you would get someone as 'in the know' as the Leanansidhe to take it in if it was known (historically) to be infected.  Mab knew that Lea had the Athame right away and if knew that it was infected she surely would have done something about it immediately rather than waiting for Lea to realize that she was infected and asking for help, IMO.

[wyltok]

In PG Lea mentions:

I grew too arrogant with the power I held.  I thought I could overcome what stalks us all.

Given our current understand, she may well be referencing Nemesis.  It's not obvious from the text when she grew arrogant.  Maybe she felt powerful enough during GP (e.g. because of her bargain with Starborn Harry, or because she was in possession of Ammorachius) to be able to accept the Athame without being corrupted?

That actually makes a lot of sense, and certainly explains what she meant there.

[Mira]

  According to Bulfinch's Mythology Morgan Le Fay was the fairy sister to King Authur, she was also known as Morgaine or Mogana.  Morgana was known as an enchantress and identified with the Lady of the Lake in Orlando Furioso. 

[Ms Duck]

  According to Bulfinch's Mythology Morgan Le Fay was the fairy sister to King Authur, she was also known as Morgaine or Mogana.  Morgana was known as an enchantress and identified with the Lady of the Lake in Orlando Furioso.

yep, as i noted, this charchter has a long, long history going all the way back to the red branch celtic legends- where she was Mab's sister.

I wonder if in the jIm verse she was Titania's predecessor?

[Haru]

I wonder if in the jIm verse she was Titania's predecessor?

Why predecessor? Titania is Mab's sister, is she not?

I have been toying with the idea of Morgana being Mab for quite some time. I'm not sure if that idea still holds up. But I believe she will have an appearance in one form or another.

[Ms Duck]

Why predecessor? Titania is Mab's sister, is she not?

I have been toying with the idea of Morgana being Mab for quite some time. I'm not sure if that idea still holds up. But I believe she will have an appearance in one form or another.

Because:

Morgan Le Fey (the original) is dead

Titania is very likely not Mab's sister due to the mother winter issue

the mantle remakes the person, and I dont think there is much of the original person in titania left.

[Haru]

Morgan Le Fey (the original) is dead

Is that from a WoJ or from the original? Because I could see Jim taking some liberties, when it comes to little details like the death of a character.

[ntribley]

Because:

Morgan Le Fey (the original) is dead

Titania is very likely not Mab's sister due to the mother winter issue

the mantle remakes the person, and I dont think there is much of the original person in titania left.

I am still not convinced, despite Bob's comment to the contrary, that the mantle remakes a person.
1. Uriel in GS: "Lies. Mab cannot change who you are." and "You are a soul; you have a body."  Both are strong indicators that choice is still choice, despite the mantle.
2. A mantle is just that - something that is placed upon you. Kringle/Odin even goes so far as to say that mask=mantle as far as meaning. One can be put off or taken up. Again implying choice.
3. Mother Summer also indicated that the changes wrought by Harry's mantle can be resisted, although few do. Why should another mantle be any different?

Any change that occurred in Titania, and by extension, Harry and Molly, would be as a result of choices they made.