The Red Court Lives....sort of (Spoilers Changes, GS, and CD)

[kalinowt]

I think that there are surviving Red Court Vampires: Esteban and Esmerelda. They were protected in the Erlking's realm from the curse, and eventually they will work their way free.

Great minds think alike!! LOL. But also Fools seldom differ I guess.

[wizard nelson]

what of maggie? she was neither full vamp or half but she'd have like 1/4 from her mom, shouldn't this maybe give her special powers without the demon? dhampir anyone?

[catnip13]

Great minds think alike!! LOL. But also Fools seldom differ I guess.

Yeah, I also have to agree with your "too cool to be gone" reasoning, too.

what of maggie? she was neither full vamp or half but she'd have like 1/4 from her mom, shouldn't this maybe give her special powers without the demon? dhampir anyone?

Nah, she was right there when the curse went down. It would have killed that aspect of her if it existed at all, like all the young half-reds.

[TheCuriousFan]

what of maggie? she was neither full vamp or half but she'd have like 1/4 from her mom, shouldn't this maybe give her special powers without the demon? dhampir anyone?

Don't think Red Court reproduction works that way. And even if it does, it got burned out when the bloodline curse went off.

[wizard nelson]

i doubt that, and if you look at the details correctly the bloodline curse goes backwards through the family (and sideways) never says forward. that's why they wanted maggie in the first place. she was the youngest, younger than susan... if any vampires had been turned after susan they would have survived too

[vicviper]

I think that there are surviving Red Court Vampires: Esteban and Esmerelda. They were protected in the Erlking's realm from the curse, and eventually they will work their way free.

My thoughts exactly.  That bloodline curse has awfully specific guidelines and being on the same plane of existence as the recipients is surely one of them.

[Cenphx]

@wizard nelson - Nope, TheCuriousFan is right. The vampire portion of any half turned RCVs wouldve been lost during the ritual. See Changes at page 422. On the next page it says more than 200 people were 'freed' from the vampire curse. At least about 10 years pass between when Susan is bitten and Chichen Itza. Some of those 200 cured people had to have been turned after Susan.

[wizard nelson]

no, your not comprehending correctly, she 'turned' when she killed martin. otherwise it woulda been pointless for things to go down that way. plus i don't think maggie has a demon part, she's more like a scion. when she turned she was reborn as the youngest

[kalinowt]

no, your not comprehending correctly, she 'turned' when she killed martin. otherwise it woulda been pointless for things to go down that way. plus i don't think maggie has a demon part, she's more like a scion. when she turned she was reborn as the youngest

Susan was the youngest vampire; Maggie was a completely different creature: a part vampire. And it is a fact that JB writes that all the half vampires turned back to human. Harry says he cured it; therefore Maggie must also be cured.

[wizard nelson]

thats my point she wasn't part vamp, she didn't have a demon, thats wat it killed in the halflings an younger than susan is important too:
"they wanted maggie because she was the youngest" "because her death woulda taken us all with her." "now you're the youngest," "the youngest vampire in the entire and literally damned court. you can kill them all." she didn't have a demon to destroy, she's uniquely maggie. halfling pregnancies dont happen everyday. she'd be different than them, a distillation of it, nothing there to kill.

[kalinowt]

thats my point she wasn't part vamp, she didn't have a demon, thats wat it killed in the halflings an younger than susan is important too:
"they wanted maggie because she was the youngest" "because her death woulda taken us all with her." "now you're the youngest," "the youngest vampire in the entire and literally damned court. you can kill them all." she didn't have a demon to destroy, she's uniquely maggie. halfling pregnancies dont happen everyday. she'd be different than them, a distillation of it, nothing there to kill.

I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just saying you are getting several things tangled up.

1) RC doesn't have demons; that's the WC
2) Susan was a half-vampire for 10 years, by your argument the curse wouldn't have worked because Susan wasn't the youngest Red Court Vampire
3) Vampire is not the same as half-vampire.
4) Maggies at the most was a quarter vampire, not a full vampire. She wasn't the youngest vampire. She was the youngest Dresden/ McCoy
5) The Curse set off a chain reaction which killed the Vampire King.
6) It was the Vampire's king's death which cured the vampire taint in the half-vampires, not Susan's death
7) All half-vampires in this reality were cured; Maggie was in this reality therefore she was cured too.

[123456789blaaa]

I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just saying you are getting several things tangled up.

1) RC doesn't have demons; that's the WC
2) Susan was a half-vampire for 10 years, by your argument the curse wouldn't have worked because Susan wasn't the youngest Red Court Vampire
3) Vampire is not the same as half-vampire.
4) Maggies at the most was a quarter vampire, not a full vampire. She wasn't the youngest vampire. She was the youngest Dresden/ McCoy
5) The Curse set off a chain reaction which killed the Vampire King.
6) It was the Vampire's king's death which cured the vampire taint in the half-vampires, not Susan's death
7) All half-vampires in this reality were cured; Maggie was in this reality therefore she was cured too.

I'm not disputing the rest of your post but do you have proof for the bolded section? Also, I'm not getting 7. It's never stated  definately that all the half-vamps were cured.

[wizard nelson]

1 lea lulled their demon halves to sleep. DEMON
2your reading it wrong, her moment of 'birth' was when she killed martin... already said this..
3yep, half vamps just have the hunger demon within
4yea? so? i know.. i don't get your point here..
5yea it reached back that far
6 the RCV were going to kill him cause he was loosing it, doubt they'd do that if it meant they died or lost power.
7this hinges on your 6, see my 6...
i think your getting your mythos mixed up, this aint dracula, you kill the original vamp and it doesn't do squat... sorry my logic confuses you

[kalinowt]

I'm not disputing the rest of your post but do you have proof for the bolded section? Also, I'm not getting 7. It's never stated  definately that all the half-vamps were cured.

It's stated quite clearly that the Red King was the originator of his entire species. The curse was set up as a line curse: youngest of a line to oldest. Susan was the youngest vampire and therefore the line curse went all the way up to the oldest Red King wiping out his entire line. There would be no RC without the King and no taint. Otherwise please re-read the final chapters of Changes again. It's all quite clearly stated by Harry in the aftermath of Susan's death.

[wizard nelson]

It's stated quite clearly that the Red King was the originator of his entire species. The curse was set up as a line curse: youngest of a line to oldest. Susan was the youngest vampire and therefore the line curse went all the way up to the oldest Red King wiping out his entire line. There would be no RC without the King and no taint. Otherwise please re-read the final chapters of Changes again. It's all quite clearly stated by Harry in the aftermath of Susan's death.

it never says this is because he died, i got the book in my lap.. again arianna was to have him killed anyways..