thresholds?

[Gozer]

ok... I've been lurking for a few days now, and have a question for the gurus... I'm fairly new to DFRPG, but am really getting into the system, and am going to be running a new game shortly.
I have a player with a character concept I really like, and want a little feedback before we dig in: he wants to be an anti-mage/supernatural 'striker' and is working up a decent story to be an embodied threshold (I really like his story, and it works perfectly with the game I'm crafting). As in: magic has a much harder time working on him, physical contact with him is as harmful as crossing a threshold to those effected by thresholds, supernatural powers are reduced against him, if they work at all, etc... one thing I'm going to stick him with: absolutely no beneficial magic. If it cuts, it cuts both ways.
Anyway, I'm looking for some feedback: whatdo you guys think? stuff to look out for from a GM perspective? etc... for example- what about effects? if he gets hit with a flame evocation, what then? I'm tempted to redcuce it, but what about residual/environmental damage? If the baddie has increased strength and hits him, is it reduced? what if they throw something at him? I'm also going back and forth on cost: 3 refresh? give him some extras he hasn't thought of and go to 4? Drop it a bit and go to 2?  Feedback/ideas appreciated.
Thanks in advance... and I'm really enjoying all of the resources here, so thanks for that as well.

[Taran]

I'm thinking of a toughness power/immunity to magic with a catch of everything. 

The toughness power would give you armour against magical attacks and if you take immunity...well, you'd be immune.

There's some cool custum powers that allow you to counterspell magic with fists too if you're going as an anti-magic striker.

[Deadmanwalking]

Well, check out the Ogre in OW: Complete immunity to magic (or at least offensive magic) is -3 Refresh (though that version wouldn't help vs. the guy with magically enhanced strength). So whatever this guy's got it shouldn't cost much more than that unless it does other things...

Personally, I'd give him the Physical Immunity (Magic) described above (for -3 Refresh), Supernatural Toughness with the Catch Attacks by Pure Mortals +3 (for -1 Refresh) and maybe Holy Touch with a slight reflavoring (and target selection change) to reflect the 'touching him hurts some things' angle (call it 'Anti-magic Touch'). That's a total of -5 Refresh and pretty cool, really.

[InFerrumVeritas]

Well, check out the Ogre in OW: Complete immunity to magic (or at least offensive magic) is -3 Refresh (though that version wouldn't help vs. the guy with magically enhanced strength). So whatever this guy's got it shouldn't cost much more than that unless it does other things...

Personally, I'd give him the Physical Immunity (Magic) described above (for -3 Refresh), Supernatural Toughness with the Catch Attacks by Pure Mortals +3 (for -1 Refresh) and maybe Holy Touch with a slight reflavoring (and target selection change) to reflect the 'touching him hurts some things' angle (call it 'Anti-magic Touch'). That's a total of -5 Refresh and pretty cool, really.

This is almost exactly what I was going to suggest, without the Holy Touch part.

[Sanctaphrax]

I, too, would go with Toughness that only applies against magical stuff.

If that's not enough for you, the custom Power list has lots of semi-applicable stuff. Aegis Demon Shield, Divine Protection, Home Is Where You Make It, Anti-Magic Field, Immunity, and Aura Of Influence might all be worth looking at.

But seriously it's probably not worth the effort, Toughness ought to be enough on its own.

[nick012000]

Also, I'll point out that in the setting, the only things that have this sort of anti-magic effect are the Outsiders, and people who traffic with them. I'd recommend adding in Lawbreaker (Seventh) and either Ritual (Summoning) or Sponsored Magic (a specific Outsider like He Who Walks Behind). Even if it was someone else who summoned the Outsider to give you these sorts of powers, you should probably have an aspect reflecting the source of your anti-magic, and your relationships with the warlock who did the summoning, and the Outsider that was summoned.

[Taran]

Also, I'll point out that in the setting, the only things that have this sort of anti-magic effect are the Outsiders, and people who traffic with them. I'd recommend adding in Lawbreaker (Seventh) and either Ritual (Summoning) or Sponsored Magic (a specific Outsider like He Who Walks Behind). Even if it was someone else who summoned the Outsider to give you these sorts of powers, you should probably have an aspect reflecting the source of your anti-magic, and your relationships with the warlock who did the summoning, and the Outsider that was summoned.

Huh?  Ogres are immune to magic.  They're just Nevernever creatures.  I'm not sure Lawbreaker is appropriate - especially considering Lawbreaker only applies to spellcasting and not natural abilities.

He might just be an Ogre changeling, but I could see the possibility of a human having some kind of latent magic-grounding properties, depending on his background.

[nick012000]

Huh?  Ogres are immune to magic.  They're just Nevernever creatures.  I'm not sure Lawbreaker is appropriate - especially considering Lawbreaker only applies to spellcasting and not natural abilities.

He might just be an Ogre changeling, but I could see the possibility of a human having some kind of latent magic-grounding properties, depending on his background.

If you're referring to the "ogre" in Summer Knight, it wasn't immune to magic. It was just highly resistant, because it was actually a Sidhe Lord using a Glamour to look like an ogre. I'm not actually sure if Harry's ever fought a real ogre before, and not even the Faerie Queens are fully immune to magic like Outsiders are.

[Taran]

As Deadmanwalking pointed out, the Ogre in OW has full immunity to magic.

[Tedronai]

The Dresdenverse is often referenced as a 'kitchen-sink setting'.  Statements along the lines of 'only X has/does Y' are going to fall flat on their faces on a regular basis.

[nick012000]

As Deadmanwalking pointed out, the Ogre in OW has full immunity to magic.

That wasn't an Ogre that Harry fought then, but a high-ranking Sidhe Lord, one of Aurora's top lieutenants. Witness the contrast of the Ogre he "fought" in Cold Days,

(click to show/hide)

that he casually froze and shattered after it spilled Sarissa's blood at his birthday party.

I'd be more inclined to say that Talos's magic resistance was not so much a passive Physical Immunity, but a long-duration Counterspell he was running with his Seelie Magic.

[InFerrumVeritas]

(click to show/hide)

That wasn't an Ogre that Harry fought then, but a high-ranking Sidhe Lord, one of Aurora's top lieutenants. Witness the contrast of the Ogre he "fought" in Cold Days, that he casually froze and shattered after it spilled Sarissa's blood at his birthday party. I'd be more inclined to say that Talos's magic resistance was not so much a passive Physical Immunity, but a long-duration Counterspell he was running with his Seelie Magic.

Ogres are immune to mortal magic. 

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That was clearly Unseelie Magic. 

According the the rule books, regular Ogres have immunity to mortal magic.  OW48-50.  In OW, it suggests that Seelie and Unseelie magic are a "whole different ball game" when it comes to their immunity.

PS This is a no spoilers zone.  Please make sure you tag them.

[Deadmanwalking]

Whether Ogres are actually immune to magic (or even just mortal magic) is entirely immaterial: This character is not Ogre-related in any way. I was just referencing it to show him how to build such an immunity mechanically.

As for the original point nick012000 made: I disagree completely. It's pretty clear that Talos at least, was immune to magic, and others have been mentioned. Nor does Harry think of Outsiders when he discovers Lord Raith's complete immunity. Now that particular example might well be Outsider based (given his dealing with He Who Walks Behind)...but if only Outsiders had such immunity, that'd be pretty common knowledge (I mean, Harry knows they have such powers, and if nothing else does...), and would've led Harry's thoughts down very different directions than they went down. Hell, it would've led Ebenezar's thoughts down very different roads than they went down (remember that he is one of the most knowledgable folks out there, magic-wise, and he knew of said immunity for something like 25 years and never seems to have thought 'Oh, he must be dealing with Outsiders'). It's clearly a rare thing in the world, but not Outsider-only.

[Taran]

PS This is a no spoilers zone.  Please make sure you tag them.

Yeah, that all got to my email.  I think I'd better read cold Days sooner than later if I'm going to keep perusing these forums.

[nick012000]

As for the original point nick012000 made: I disagree completely. It's pretty clear that Talos at least, was immune to magic, and others have been mentioned. Nor does Harry think of Outsiders when he discovers Lord Raith's complete immunity. Now that particular example might well be Outsider based (given his dealing with He Who Walks Behind)...but if only Outsiders had such immunity, that'd be pretty common knowledge (I mean, Harry knows they have such powers, and if nothing else does...), and would've led Harry's thoughts down very different directions than they went down. Hell, it would've led Ebenezar's thoughts down very different roads than they went down (remember that he is one of the most knowledgable folks out there, magic-wise, and he knew of said immunity for something like 25 years and never seems to have thought 'Oh, he must be dealing with Outsiders'). It's clearly a rare thing in the world, but not Outsider-only.

There's a difference between "Immune to magic" and "So powerful you might as well be immune to magic", but to your average mortal spell-slinger, it'll be pretty hard to tell the difference. I'm just saying that the former is exclusive to Outsiders, while the latter is something pretty much every Supernatural Heavyweight possesses.