[CD spoilers] Proven Guilty

[Elegast]

There is one point I want to question, though; this discussion seems to be operating on the basis that the withdrawal of winter forces to protect the Wellspring affected the forces at the Outer Gates as well as those on the border with Summer.  Have we any firm textual basis for that, or is it an assumption ?

Assumption. It's based on Lea saying 'all of winter', and this WOJ which is quite explicite:

Also, it has probably occurred to more than one of you that if Mab was /really/ in trouble, she could have had the entire military might of Faerie back at the fortress in moments--exactly the way they *did* come back when Harry smacked the Winter Well with the fires of Summer.

[Elegast]

"Mab fixed little Chicago" is practically a slam dunk now that we know Faeries can cross thresholds if they have a benevolent purpose.

It's really credible. But Time Travel Harry is really strong too.

[the neurovore of Zur-En-Aargh]

The only reason given was that in her they would really be able to chow down on a fear feast, but the truth was, Molly came through that incident apparently unscathed. Sure, she found out that she'd broken one of the Laws of Magic, was nearly beheaded, became Harry's apprentice, and found she had to live with her family and finish high school. But she certainly doesn't exhibit the signs that her psyche had been shredded by the fetches. Far from it. So what were they doing with her the whole time they held her in Arctis Tor? Doesn't look like they were doing much of anything.

Examining her really carefully to get the best info for later influencing/manipulation of her to proceed, perhaps ?

[madness]

Nemesis is still rather enigmatic though.

Is the piece of Nemesis in all infected beings completely in tune with (communicating with) all the others making for perfect cordination?  What is necessary for the infection to spread? 

Something tells me that Nemesis's control over a being is more effective if it remains subtle, or it can get more use out of said being if the being still retains its own identity.  This closely parallels my understanding of Denarian's relationships with their hosts, and is based off of our experiences with Cat Sith.  It appears that Cat Sith was not wholy a willing participant in nemesis's plans and as such was not as much of a bad ass.  However, Maeve and other Nemesis operatives were truely ambitious and acting out these ambitions in a way that segued with Nemesis's plans and thus were more effective operatives...

We see this with mind control via magic and with vampire mind control as well so it would make sense for any other forms of mind control to follow similar rules and patterns.

The more that you screw with a mind the more likely that mind is to begin breaking down and operating less effectively.

[madness]

Assumption. It's based on Lea saying 'all of winter', and this WOJ which is quite explicite:

This could easily be a situation where Jim was forced to lie or fudge the truth in order to avoid a huge spoiler.

The 40,000 troops protecting the heart of winter could easily be what he was referencing at that point since only Jim himself knew about the troops at the Outer Gates.

Even after Cold Days I had never considered the possibility that the troops at the Outer Gates had left their posts.  It just seems so stupid and foolish that I can't imagine that it was possible.

If Mab would sacrifice all of Winter in order to protect the Outer Gates then how would the forces at the Outer Gates possibly justify leaving to defend Arctis Tor unless Mab specifically ordered it?

I have a feeling that the forces out there would stay at their posts while both the mortal world and Faerie fell into ruins if it came to that.

[Zaphodess]

Examining her really carefully to get the best info for later influencing/manipulation of her to proceed, perhaps ?

Or check her out for a Nemesis infection. Maybe she usually sends her Knight to deal with infected mortals, but as Lloyd Slate was out of it at the time, she had to find another way to stop a further spread of the infection.

[dpara]

Damn Proven Guilty again , so some theories for questions I consider mostly unsatisfactory answered:

How did Molly ultimately get to Mabs attention?

• The Gatekeeper future whispered himself about looking out for black/fear magic, he told Mab/Mab figured it out. 
• Molly's magic was winters portfolio, and the Gatekeeper twigged that Mab was getting Molly's vibes (and he was so evasive since he was under oath/plausible deniability).
• As the two above but replace Mab with Maeve or replace with Fetches.

Why take Molly to Arctis Tor?

• giving Harry Demonreach? (sry never quite followed that reasoning chain)
• Mab knew Harrys gonna be hers, so let's make that whole abduction a loyalty generation mission & get two for one in the end. 
• Proximity to Lea? For teaching Molly how to feel the taint/As a dump for Leas infection/As a source of memories to restore Leas sanity?
• Coincidence (^^) Eldest fetch eats very slow, Mab told him to get home and he took his food with him.

Who was at the attack?

• Maeve?
  • She folded time to prevent reinforcements reaching Mab. 
  • She was pretty undeniably attacking Mab at the party . 
  • Just opening the way for Mabs "guests". 
• Hellfire flinger? 
  
  • a Denarian. 
  • future/alternate Harry attacking/defending Mab. (Maybe Mabs entire inner defense was infected and Harry rode to rescue ^^)
  • no Hellfire.. just regular fire and someone brought sulfur. 
• Erlking? ..wasn't he curiously close by?

[Mira]

  Somehow I doubt that someone faked hellfire.  What I think is Mab is a big player in the WG's over all plan.  I think Uriel is the liaison officer between her and Him, I think Harry's future was mapped out for him from the moment he was conceived.. Adjustments made along the way of course to accommodate his right of free will to make good and bad choices, but the general currents of his life have been pushing him to where he is at, and what he is a weapon in the coming war.  I am willing to bet the same has been true for Molly.  Born of two devote parents, one a Holy Knight plus magical talent make her perfect for the role she is about to take...   Though it might not be quite so clear what was mapped out for her like Harry, Mab made sure this pawn was made ready to enter the game when needed. 

[KrelianZG]

There's no way that someone could "fake" Hellfire to a being such as Mab. Probably even Harry. Also, if you're powerful enough to simulate Hellfire, you don't need minions to assault Arctis Tor to begin with, IMO.

[Arjan]

There's no way that someone could "fake" Hellfire to a being such as Mab. Probably even Harry. Also, if you're powerful enough to simulate Hellfire, you don't need minions to assault Arctis Tor to begin with, IMO.

The powerful always use minions even if they can just solve the problem by pointing a finger. For some reason using minions is as it should be. 

[KrelianZG]

The powerful always use minions even if they can just solve the problem by pointing a finger. For some reason using minions is as it should be. 

Well, I agree that something used "minions" there. But I do think Namshiel was the one who used Hellfire, and likely thought he was a valued member of the team at the time. "Minion" is a relative term, after all.

[Serack]

This:

What, exactly, were the outsiders doing Dead Beat that took so many of Winter's Forces that they didn't intercept the Red Court when they were chasing the white council?

They were denying Mab her command structure. During Dead Beat, Lea was on ice due to her N-fection (I like that, btw) and the Winter Knight was busy being tortured. Mab has two fronts to defend: Winter territory, and the Gates. Without Lea (WoJ is that Lea acts as Mab's regent, and they switch off roles), Mab would have to call on Maeve to handle one of the fronts. I'm sure the Red Court running around in Winter was just an "accident" due to Maeve being too "distracted" performing her normal duties atop of her extra responsibilites.

So, what can Mab do, after finding two traitors high in her command structure, and with a less-than-competent second in command? She places everyone on high alert to guard her borders (something even Maeve can't "mess up"), and while the realm is in lockdown, goes on a traitor hunt (as we see in PG).