Author Topic: CD Spoilers: The Case of the Stolen Walking Stick  (Read 41473 times)

Offline Viktor

  • Conversationalist
  • **
  • Posts: 214
    • View Profile
Re: CD Spoilers: The Case of the Stolen Walking Stick
« Reply #60 on: December 01, 2012, 06:57:20 PM »
This is interesting. On further reading on the Morrigan, it seems that she was the consort to the Dagda, and she indeed translates quite perfectly into the Winter Queen thing. Depending on the source, it also seems that Morgan Le Fay might have been her human aspect. Considering the relationship between the Dagda/Morrigan and Merlin/Morgan, there might be some credence to the "Odin is Merlin" theory. In the same book we find Vaderung is Odin is Kringle who has Time Powers, and we also see that Merlin is very powerful and has Time Powers AND the mental acuity to work in multiple dimensions- I'd say there's a correlation.

I think it's more likely that Morgan Le Fay was the Winter Knight, not the aspect of one of the Queens. (She did have the Le Fay name like Maggie did centuries later, after all.)

I don't buy Merlin=Odin, it's too much of a circle jerk. It's also been stated in the DF that Merlin was a human wizard who did legendary things & was merely taught by Odin.

Quote
I personally like the idea that the original Merlin was just a crafty bad-ass wizard. I feel that Odin is Santa is Merlin is taking it one step too far, but I of course trust Jim could make it work and be believable and interesting.
I guess it really depends on which stories Jim draws from. It looks like Morgan Le Fey was originally a supernatural being, and later was reported to be Arthur's half sister. Merlin was supposed to have a demon as his father, I like the idea that Odin is Merlin's Sire better than the two being the same person.

The more I'm looking into it the more things seem to mesh up. Jim specifically mentions Celtic legend and the Dagda story jibs with Arthurian legend and Dresdenology. The thing is that we don't have to go 100% on the real world lore because it all goes through the Jim filter. Lore is a bunch of half-truths anyway.
I am totally open to hearing your thoughts on the matter if you have another line of thought for me to investigate.
I'm just not mentally tying the Blackstaff too tightly to the 1065 AD time frame. That might have been when a change of hands occurred or something.

I immediately could only find a few historically important things of note (thing that I can relate directly to DF) that happened in 1060s Europe:
1063: The River Thames is frozen for 14 weeks. (Obviously something Wintery happened)
1066:
King of England dies, and New King (Harold) gets chosen by a council of old men.
Battle of Hastings, King Harold and all his brothers are killed and England gets taken over.
Dark Ages ends, Middle Ages begin.
End of the Viking Age in England.

We have a little bit to work with there in terms of guessing at the powers and meaning behind those events, but as far as lore and mythology goes I'm at a total lose as to were else I should be looking.

That's a LOT of incredibly historic stuff taking place over a relatively short period of time. Wow, yeah I can sense that I'm going to be doing some major research about those things soon. Thanks! :)

Offline Esa

  • Lurker
  • Posts: 9
    • View Profile
Re: CD Spoilers: The Case of the Stolen Walking Stick
« Reply #61 on: December 01, 2012, 10:10:25 PM »
Not sure how reliable, but here's another possibility

Quote
Cailleac Bhuer (call-y'ac V'fhoor) - Also called the Blue Hag or Stone Woman. She originates in Scotland and is an old woman of human size who walks by night with a walking stick made of holly with the carved head of a crow on top. A large carrion crow sits on her left shoulder and a touch from her magical staff means instant death to a human. If her staff is found unattended it will give its owner the power of enchantment.

I'm trying to hunt down a story of it being left unattended
"Build a man a fire and he's warm for the rest of the day,
but set a man on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life"
- 'Tao of Pratchett', Harry Dresden, Cold Days

Offline Esa

  • Lurker
  • Posts: 9
    • View Profile
Re: CD Spoilers: The Case of the Stolen Walking Stick
« Reply #62 on: December 01, 2012, 10:12:47 PM »
Ok, yeah... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cailleach = winter queen/hag
"Build a man a fire and he's warm for the rest of the day,
but set a man on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life"
- 'Tao of Pratchett', Harry Dresden, Cold Days

Offline ebliss1

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 1415
    • View Profile
Re: CD Spoilers: The Case of the Stolen Walking Stick
« Reply #63 on: December 01, 2012, 11:44:09 PM »
I also picked up on the missing walking stick = blackstaff connection. My guess is that the blackstaff veils itself so that Mother Winter cannot sense where it is or who has it.

Now, we have WoJ that the next book will feature the Denarians and will be a heist book. Anyone want to wager that Nic or one of his ilk somehow spots the blackstaff in Eb's possession, and gets word to Mother Winter about its location. Mother Winter then orders the Winter Knight to steal back the staff from Eb for her.

That scenario would be just chock-full of possibilities.
Making a Better World Whether You Like it or Not

Offline TheCuriousFan

  • Special Collections Division
  • Seriously?
  • ****
  • Posts: 16609
    • View Profile
Re: CD Spoilers: The Case of the Stolen Walking Stick
« Reply #64 on: December 02, 2012, 02:56:35 AM »
I also picked up on the missing walking stick = blackstaff connection. My guess is that the blackstaff veils itself so that Mother Winter cannot sense where it is or who has it.

Now, we have WoJ that the next book will feature the Denarians and will be a heist book. Anyone want to wager that Nic or one of his ilk somehow spots the blackstaff in Eb's possession, and gets word to Mother Winter about its location. Mother Winter then orders the Winter Knight to steal back the staff from Eb for her.

That scenario would be just chock-full of possibilities.

Wouldn't get just ignore Mother Winter in that case since part of his agreement is no being sent after loved ones?
Currently dealing with a backlog of games.

If you want me to type up a book quote or find a WoJ quote, send me a PM.

Rest in peace mdodd.

Offline Rascal

  • Conversationalist
  • **
  • Posts: 125
    • View Profile
Re: CD Spoilers: The Case of the Stolen Walking Stick
« Reply #65 on: December 02, 2012, 03:00:03 AM »
Just because you know something was stolen and you know who stole it, doesn't mean you have the power to take it back.

It's Faerie. When has anything involving Faerie ever been simple? ;)

There's also that, as some have already implied, Mother Winter wanted it stolen from her and conspired to have it done.

Offline Bakoro

  • Conversationalist
  • **
  • Posts: 186
    • View Profile
Re: CD Spoilers: The Case of the Stolen Walking Stick
« Reply #66 on: December 02, 2012, 06:48:42 AM »
Ok, yeah... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cailleach = winter queen/hag

Good find, that fits perfectly with Mother Winter's walking stick, and it has the connection to death like the Blackstaff.

Sometimes I wish I could swim against the currents of time so I could get my hands on the rest of the Dresden books.

Offline OMGwtfBACON

  • Participant
  • *
  • Posts: 14
    • View Profile
Re: CD Spoilers: The Case of the Stolen Walking Stick
« Reply #67 on: December 02, 2012, 07:11:36 AM »
If Blackstaff is MW walking staff i am more inclined that she lost it in some gamble more so than anything. Maybe she lost it to Merlin, because the staff was around the White Council before gramps.

Offline KevinSig

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 2353
    • View Profile
Re: CD Spoilers: The Case of the Stolen Walking Stick
« Reply #68 on: December 02, 2012, 09:58:01 AM »
I also picked up on the missing walking stick = blackstaff connection. My guess is that the blackstaff veils itself so that Mother Winter cannot sense where it is or who has it.

Now, we have WoJ that the next book will feature the Denarians and will be a heist book. Anyone want to wager that Nic or one of his ilk somehow spots the blackstaff in Eb's possession, and gets word to Mother Winter about its location. Mother Winter then orders the Winter Knight to steal back the staff from Eb for her.

That scenario would be just chock-full of possibilities.

How much of a bet are we talking?  Because I'm fairly certain that the next book will be about stealing Lashiel's coin.  And be willing to go all in, with imaginary Internet money, I'm so confident.

Offline TheCuriousFan

  • Special Collections Division
  • Seriously?
  • ****
  • Posts: 16609
    • View Profile
Re: CD Spoilers: The Case of the Stolen Walking Stick
« Reply #69 on: December 02, 2012, 10:13:02 AM »
Good find, that fits perfectly with Mother Winter's walking stick, and it has the connection to death like the Blackstaff.

Sometimes I wish I could swim against the currents of time so I could get my hands on the rest of the Dresden books.

Why would you need to swim against the currents of time? ;)
Currently dealing with a backlog of games.

If you want me to type up a book quote or find a WoJ quote, send me a PM.

Rest in peace mdodd.

Offline Rascal

  • Conversationalist
  • **
  • Posts: 125
    • View Profile
Re: CD Spoilers: The Case of the Stolen Walking Stick
« Reply #70 on: December 02, 2012, 10:37:39 AM »
Here's the thing I don't get about the Blackstaff:

In the RPG or maybe a WoJ, the thing most special about the Blackstaff is that it allows its bearer to do black magic without it staining their soul. Just sucks it right out of them.

If that's the case, what does Mother Winter need it for? Or, is that simply what it does in the hands of a mortal?

Offline Bakoro

  • Conversationalist
  • **
  • Posts: 186
    • View Profile
Re: CD Spoilers: The Case of the Stolen Walking Stick
« Reply #71 on: December 02, 2012, 12:02:26 PM »
Why would you need to swim against the currents of time? ;)

So I can go back in time and give all the books to myself in the now, along with some lottery numbers. Then I have all the books, and don't loose 10 years waiting for the rest of the books.

Also, holy crap is the Dresden Files a long series come to think about it.

Offline THE_ANGRY_GAMER

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 1186
    • View Profile
Re: CD Spoilers: The Case of the Stolen Walking Stick
« Reply #72 on: December 02, 2012, 01:33:26 PM »
Here's the thing I don't get about the Blackstaff:

In the RPG or maybe a WoJ, the thing most special about the Blackstaff is that it allows its bearer to do black magic without it staining their soul. Just sucks it right out of them.

If that's the case, what does Mother Winter need it for? Or, is that simply what it does in the hands of a mortal?

That's probably only one function of it, but the only one that can be activated by a mortal.

Further, it's possible that, to Mama Winter, the Blackstaff has no function beyond 'walking stick'. The black-magic filter could be a property of having been owned by MW for eons.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2012, 01:35:34 PM by THE_ANGRY_GAMER »
GENERATION 24: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the generation. Social experiment.

Offline dantesparadise

  • Conversationalist
  • **
  • Posts: 156
  • Abandon hope, all ye who enter here
    • View Profile
    • Lost: Midnight Mist Preview
Re: CD Spoilers: The Case of the Stolen Walking Stick
« Reply #73 on: December 02, 2012, 01:40:15 PM »
Sound like the perfect order for the Winter queen to issue to her newly minted Knight.  Especially since we know there is gonna be a big theft in the next book. Find Mother Winter's staff (blackstaff?)  and steal it back.
I died.  There was no life flashing before my eyes.  There were no harps.  There were no white robes.  There was no land of milk and honey.  There were no wings…

Offline KevinSig

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 2353
    • View Profile
Re: CD Spoilers: The Case of the Stolen Walking Stick
« Reply #74 on: December 02, 2012, 02:20:48 PM »
Sound like the perfect order for the Winter queen to issue to her newly minted Knight.  Especially since we know there is gonna be a big theft in the next book. Find Mother Winter's staff (blackstaff?)  and steal it back.

Meh, while I'm totally on board with the Blackstaff = walking stick, I think people are jumping to conclusions that it'll be the object of the theft.  From the Ocean's 11 description, it sounds like Harry & Co will have to steal something from a big facility, and create a multi stage plan to do so.  Maybe getting help from nefarious types, like Nick.

Which, is why I think Lashiel's coin will be the target.  Even if it isn't, I don't see the Blackstaff being something that would require that level of planning.