I never proposed scene long. I proposed it work like a maneuver: If you succeed by more than one shift, it's sticky, if not it last one exchange.
I would never do a scene long compel on a maneuver. I'd do a compel for as long as the maneuver lasts, which could be the full scene if no-one takes efforts to remove it.
I see. I misunderstood. That could actually work.
Ok so 1. What makes it more overpowered than attacking physical stress track. If anything it balances out because they can defend with higher abilities as opposed to defending with ones that they might have as throw aways.
2. It does something. It may not stop them completely but it makes them reconsider doing bigger moves because they have less stress to spend on it.
3. Naratively it does make sense. I am flooding their system with magic which would affect them mentally as is shown by when they use magic it hits their mental stress track.
Also where is that last part. If you could find it for me that would be appreciated.
I honestly dont see why it is such a reach for this attack to attack mental stress. If the problem is that I am casting with fists, I had to take a -2 power to do that. I dont see this as being overpowered or out of the realms of posiblility.
1. You know the Power All Creatures Are Equal Before God? 3-4 Refresh, +1 FP/use? Mental stress does almost everything it does. Ignoring worn armour is good for a small stress boost, ignoring Toughness and Recovery and Immunity and physical enchanted armour makes a mockery of durable opponents. Hitting Discipline and Conviction instead of Athletics and Endurance is usually also a perk.
2. It does something, but not much. I can still cast normally after being hit with your anti-casting effect. Just not as many times.
3. It's debatable. That narration sounds okay to me, the old pressure point one doesn't.
4. Reply 20.
5. Basically, mental stress is much more powerful than physical stress. And Evocation already one-shots people all over the place. I'm speaking from experience when I say that against mental evocations every character is made of tissue paper. (Except for Crafters who bought mental defence items, and people using custom Powers.)
6. Did you pay 2 Refresh just to control spells with Fists? Sounds like a ripoff to me.
@ mr. death.
1. most wizards don't have a toughness power
2. Their mental stress track is their best track and they likely have extra milds
3. They are defending with their apex skill: discipline.
So I don't see it as being Over Powered. It is actually more advantageous to attack their physical track, I would think and force them to defend with endurance or athletics.
It's true that the OP is is attacking with an apex skill. If he was a wizard doing a mental evocation, it would also be using his apex skill, so it doesn't really make a difference that he's attacking with fists.
Once again, since he's suggesting it work on casters only, I might require that there be some kind of tag of the targets magic casting Aspect (usually the High Concept). Or at least require an assessment to discover it.
It's almost never a good idea to balance overpowered things with stuff like "only against spellcasters". This is a good example of why.
As you move upwards in the game's power scale, you'll see more and more characters rocking Toughness and spellcasting. Sometimes they'll be casters with Items Of Power or some other trick, like some of my current PCs. Sometimes they'll be physical monsters with spellcasting Powers, like elder Red Court vamps and skinwalkers. This suggestion dooms them all to one-hit-kills, and makes it so that spellcasting is seriously worth negative Refresh for many characters.
And anyway wizard fights are deadly enough as is.
To be honest, I've only ever found mental attacks to be mildly overpowered. Most of the things that are supposed to be tough (like Sue) could probably invoke their high concept to be immune. That being said, things that are more self aware (like ghouls) do go down way easier that way. It is a bit overpowered Lavecki, take it from people who have tried it.
The main issue that I see with it though is simply the narrative weirdness of not hitting someone and still achieving your goal. One of the things that you have to understand in fate conflicts is that a successful attack may still completely miss. Stress is just energy expended avoiding an attack (or casting a spell, or whatever). If you haven't inflicted a consequence then you haven't even hit your target. Even if you do inflict a consequence, you still may not hit. I can flavor the consequence to be a result of escaping your attack. That's how we wind up with consequences like "sprained ankle" when you're shooting a gun at me.
So really, I just find it wonky that you could fail to connect with your target physically, but then still influence them in exactly the way you were trying to. Wonkyness happens when you mix physical and mental actions.
Broken stuff like Invoking your High Concept to become immune to attack can keep other broken stuff in check, I guess.
Stress can be an actual hit, it just doesn't have to be.
I like how consequences are done in Dfrpg and I like narrative control, but there is more than one person in the pilot seat.
There are powers in the book that are based on the fact that consequences will give the wielder of those powers a long-term advantage. I don't think that a table would or should undermine that fact, otherwise those powers aren't worth the refresh spent on them.
Which Powers are you talking about? I really can't think of any.
Anyway, taking someone out with Incite Emotion is easy because it's mental stress. So if you want a long term advantage, take them out and dictate whatever you like.
Oh, and with respect to your previous post...extra elements are pretty useless. Spirit does everything.
