Resisting magic?

[zeromig]

I've got a question regarding resisting magic in DFRPG. I've checked the books and couldn't find anything regarding how, if at all possible, one can resist thaumaturgy directed at them.

For examples:
- How to resist against love potions
- Being targeted by lightning strikes
- Or, straight-up killing spells

I'm aware of the "thou shalt not kill" Wizard rules in DFRPG, but I'm using the ruleset, not the setting.

Any thoughts? Any help is appreciated.

[crusher_bob]

The implication on many rituals is that they have no effect if resisted.  So, for example, if it takes 25 power to kill someone and you expect their discipline to be 4, and you allocated 4 more power to account for their roll, if, when the time comes, they manage to pull out a +9 discipline result, they don't suffer any effects from the ritual.

So, for PCs, who presumably have access to fate points, they can theoretically just buy their way out of it.

Other choices are being behind wards and/or thresholds, which both reduce the effective power.

[citadel97501]

- How to resist against love potions
          -This would be a maneuver, to place the "In Love" potion.  I 
          personally would have it resisted by Discipline. 

- Being targeted by lightning strikes
          -Discipline vs. Athletics with a power 10+ damage effect. 

- Or, straight-up killing spells
          -Endurance as a resist skill would be a good idea, once again with a 
          ridiculously high damage effect. 

[Tedronai]

a 'love' (or, more likely lust) potion would likely be defended against with Discipline, but it really depends on how the effects of the potion are described and how the defending character's player describes the struggle.  The same principle applies to most attack-defense situations.  I could also envision Conviction, or even possibly Rapport.

Being targeted by a lightning strike might be defended against with athletics in an attempt to simply dodge the strike, conviction to resist the 'guidance' spell, or endurance to simply weather the blast with as little harm as possible.

'killing spells' have some means by which that death is inflicted, and those means will inform the likely defenses.

[zeromig]

What would you say would be an appropriate player concession, considering that these are killing spells?


Thanks everyone!

[Tedronai]

single-phrase versions, details obviously subject to context:
'you think I'm dead, but I'll be back (it'll just take me a while)'
'horribly maimed'
'so far down my hidey-hole that I can't see the sun, and not coming out any time soon'


really though, so much depends on the details and the context that it's difficult to formulate these things ahead of time.

[Locnil]

(click to show/hide)

There's always "Dead but not Gone", a la Dresden himself.

Edited due to late-series spoiler content.

[zeromig]

What are you talking about? I'm only on book 4.

(click to show/hide)

Is Dresden dead or something?

[Rougarou]

Zero, there is a reason he put a spoiler tag there. You need to put a spoiler tag on your reply too, because it's giving away details to people who, like you, have not read all the books.

[iago]

Zero, there is a reason he put a spoiler tag there. You need to put a spoiler tag on your reply too, because it's giving away details to people who, like you, have not read all the books.

He didn't put the tag there, I did.

Folks: police yourselves. If it's not ollld news, err on the side of a spoiler tag.

[atavistic]

If someone's coming after you with thaumaturgy you've really got two hopes.  One, that they haven't done their homework, or Two, you get to them first. 
Thaumaturgy spells are effectively an attack of its power, weapon zero.  The aim is to get an attack that will force a taken out where you've declared that DEAD will be the result.  You've got to fill all of the targets consequences, fill their stress track and beat their defense skill and roll. Minor 2, moderate 4, serious 6, extreme 8 gives you 20 plus a 4 stress track and a say 4 skill and +4 best possible role. That's a 32 power spell to get most people (Shadow man's heart spell was more complete, targets 5 skill and an extra mild consequence and an extra point to ensure the stress track gets run down).   

Hope One is that you have more an extra consequence, extra point of defense,  a toughness power, a threshold or ward, or an aspect that you can tag.  If they didn't go for vast overkill, and you have that extra moment of defense, you survive with only all your consequences filled in and your last box on your stress track filled, but you're not taken out.  The other part of hope One is that they were lazy or economical in their spell and didn't prep an extra few aspects in 'just in case'.
 
It takes time to put together all the elements of a spell that big, and a pretty strong caster to pull it off ( thaumaturgy control of 5 or higher is a must as a -4 roll can and probably will happen in such a long casting), hopefully you either have enough allies to find out that someone is gunning for you or you don't have enemies that dangerous.  This is where hope Two comes into play.
 Against an enemy with unlimited time and resources and perfect magic control, kill or be killed is the only real option, much as Harry has done in at least 3 books.

Prevention is really the key, without a sample item to target with, thaumaturgy can't attack you. Even better a false sample item can cause an mistaken compel and result in the spell failing and thus backlashing with nasty results.  Building a really powerful ward on your home is good prevention as the curse will degrade a lot when it hits it.  Or you could just hide in the nevernever where earth bound spells don't reach unless aimed there.

As for simpler thaumaturgy like love spells or single aspect maneuver spells, getting them off after is much more achievable then resisting them.  Though the above strategy still applies.

[Lamech]

What would you say would be an appropriate player concession, considering that these are killing spells?

In general a killing spell is supposed to start and end the conflict. They should never really have a chance to concede. I suppose if the guy flubs the first spell a reasonable concession is all the consequences the person took from a half decent killing spell.

[Tedronai]

The target of an attack can concede up until the attack that would take them out is actually rolled.  That includes after the attack is declared.

[Belial666]

a) The concession has to make sense and be acceptable. If an assassin wants to kill you, what concession will you offer? Surrender? He isn't interested in prisoners. His attacks knocking you out but not killing you? He double-taps you to make sure you're dead. Similarly, a wizard hitting you with a heart-ripping spell does not intend to accept any concessions. His spell is intentionally lethal. And it's also an overkill - he doesn't try to stop your heart or give you an accident - he rips your hear out of your chest with enough force to blast your chest cavity apart. What kind of concession would make sense and be acceptable under the circumstances?

b) You can only concede before the roll that takes you out. If a sniper ambushes you and shoots you in the head from a half-mile away, you won't know of the attack until after it happens. Similarly, if a wizard casts a death-spell on you from twenty miles away, you won't know it's happening.

c) The smart wizard won't do a 36-shift spell. He'll do ten 10-shift ones, keyed to go off together. Even if each individual spell only deals 1 consequence to you, you die because you don't have enough stress boxes and consequences to absorb all of them. Even if you can concede against one, the following spells will still kill you (sort of how an assassin double-taps an already taken-out opponent or shoots the prisoner)

[crusher_bob]

FATE is not mean to be 'simulationist' and trying to mate up concessions to that way of looking at things will just end in tears.

a.
Concessions are an agreement between the player(s) and the GM, not the characters involved in the conflict.

b.
The players are aware of things (like when the dice are rolled) that their characters are not.

c. 'a bunch of little spells that combine together to make a big effect' are in fact 'a big spell'.  Describing them as a bunch of little spells is just a narrative choice.  Just like 'I shoot at you once' and 'I shoot at you many times' are equally valid ways of describing a single guns attack.

Example of concession vs assassin:
Description 1:
The assassins bullet hits you right in the forehead.  Large amounts of blood, hair, and other gory bits impact on the wall behind you.  The assassin is satisfied and goes away.

Description 2:
The bullet penetrates your skin and impacts your skull, but does not penetrate.  Instead, it glides along your skull and them exits at the back of your head, taking a lot of blood, hair, and skin with it.  It's quite gory.

You are knocked out, will have a really wicked scar, and maybe some memory loss.

Game effect:
And because you weren't there <detrimental story effect> happens, but you can come back for revenge later.