Rewriting Possession, Domination, and Demonic Co-Pilot

[InFerrumVeritas]

My biggest question is: Can you act outside of the mental conflict?  That is, if you're trying to enthrall me, can I just punch you?

[Locnil]

Each exchange takes 30 minutes. How are you planning to get Mavra or Maeve to sit still and let you enthrall them?

If it works any way like Domination, the victim has to be bound and helpless, so, no, you can't punch your would-be enthraller.

[Tedronai]

Or, more accurately, being able to punch your would-be enthraller inherently invalidates the attempt to enthrall you.

[Sanctaphrax]

However, shouldn't you put some restrictions on what kind of powers and stunts they could grant? I don't see why being enthralled should make someone suddenly have more expensive stuff and be able to teleport into the Nevernever.

Because the enthralment process involves grafting a money spirit onto their soul.

Spiritual Power - Is there any reason you chose to word it this way, instead of just saying a +1 to any roll?

Initiative isn't a roll.

If I'm reading it right, a mild control consequence requires two scenes of no power usage to heal - one to start recovery, the other to actually heal it. Am I reading it right?

No. Go a session without using the Power and it heals.

How about an option to go nova? Instead of only a series of +1 boosts, you can boost it as much as you want, perhaps with a cap of Lore or Conviction so it doesn't get abused. Each point of bonus you get, in total, will be doubled and added to the accuracy of the control attack.

Way too good. A 10 000 shift control attack wouldn't be enough to pay for a +5 bonus.

SCP seems better now, if still a a tad on the weak side - though from what I've seen, I have different ideas about the value of a Refresh than you. It's also possible I'm still influenced by the earlier write-up.

I'd be interested in hearing about those different ideas...

Maybe instead of replacing an aspect, the taken out consequence could add an additional sticky aspect relating to the spirit's attempts to gain control, one that persists until the next milestone?

For rough thralls how would becoming one effect a supernaturally gifted being? Would a person with enthrallment be able to dominate a powerful magic user, turn them into a Rough Thrall and have them use their magic (or *shudder* have them use up their Death Curse), or would these abilities become unavailable whilst they are enthralled (you mention that Renfields lose their previous memories and abilities - which seems to imply that Rough Thralls retain them).

For that matter can this power be used to dominate an entirely non-human entity? Looking at things as they currently stand, with a little luck, a character specced out for this power could turn Maeve or Mavra into a Rough Thrall or Renfield relatively easily, something that just doesn't sit well with me. (In fact - looking at OW, Maeve would probably be easier to enthrall than Mavra...which seems a little odd)

The potential blowback from suborning the power of the Winter Lady could be very amusing and might be considered adequate motivation not to do this.

Get Maeve helpless, she's yours (going by her rather low canon stats). The first part is hard, though, and she probably ought to be tougher than OW says she is.

Caster thralls can cast. What gave you any other ideas?

In order to represent the corruptive process properly, permanent Aspect changes are kinda necessary.

That you need a willing or helpless target is the first thing the Power says.

[Sanctaphrax]

Okay, now for a possession variant.

NEEDS A NAME [-1]
Description: You're a spiritual symbiote of sorts; you enter the bodies of other people and make them stronger.
Musts: You must have an Aspect reflecting this Power.
Skills Affected: Many.
Effects:
Integration. You may enter the bodies of willing characters. Entering or leaving a body in a conflict takes your action, and you can stay until you decide to leave or are kicked out by your host. While you are in a character's body, that character has access to your stunts, skills, and Powers. Size Powers are an exception to this. Other exceptions should be handled through Compels or through the Limitation Power.
Abandoned Body. While you are in another character's body, the only thing you can do is talk to your host. Nobody save your host can perceive you unless they have The Sight or another such effect. If you have a physical body, it lies vulnerable until you leave your host. If you have the Spirit Form Power, you are entirely subsumed into your host until you leave into the area surrounding your host's body.

Thoughts? Criticisms? Name ideas?

[KOFFEYKID]

For Spiritual Co-Pilot I have a much more Elegant solution.

Just treat it as sponsored magic debt mechanics for everything in line with the co-pilots interest.

When it compels it compels for control of your character for a turn, generally speaking.

[Locnil]

Okay, now for a possession variant.

NEEDS A NAME [-1]
Description: You're a spiritual symbiote of sorts; you enter the bodies of other people and make them stronger.
Musts: You must have an Aspect reflecting this Power.
Skills Affected: Many.
Effects:
Integration. You may enter the bodies of willing characters. Entering or leaving a body in a conflict takes your action, and you can stay until you decide to leave or are kicked out by your host. While you are in a character's body, that character has access to your stunts, skills, and Powers. Size Powers are an exception to this. Other exceptions should be handled through Compels or through the Limitation Power.
Abandoned Body. While you are in another character's body, the only thing you can do is talk to your host. Nobody save your host can perceive you unless they have The Sight or another such effect. If you have a physical body, it lies vulnerable until you leave your host. If you have the Spirit Form Power, you are entirely subsumed into your host until you leave into the area surrounding your host's body.

Thoughts? Criticisms? Name ideas?

Doesn't Mind Meld already do this?

Also, how would this interact with your system for summoning/creating minions?

[Sanctaphrax]

@KOFFEYKID: That was discussed earlier. In fact, this version suggests that its users also take a -0 Power that lets them take debt to their Sponsor.

I quite like Sponsor mechanics and I'd totally use them alone for something like this...sometimes. This is for the other times.

@Locnil: As stated in the first post, this type of possession is very similar to Mind Meld. In fact, this Power is basically the second draft of Mind Meld...I just dropped the name because I think it sounds daft.

A summon/minion with Mind Meld is clearly broken, since this Power and the summon/minion rules work on different basic assumptions.

The summon/minon rules need a bit of GM fiat to work anyway, so it shouldn't be hard to make them work with this. The summoning rules already say to adjust complexity based on how optimal the summon is and the minion rules charge for Powers based on the value they have on a minion compared to the value they have on a PC.

[Sanctaphrax]

POSSESSION [-1]
Description: You can take over the bodies of others. Maybe only if they consent, maybe even if they don't.
Skills Affected: Discipline, others.
Effects:
Possession. You may enter the bodies of willing characters. Entering or leaving a body in a conflict takes your action, and you can stay until you decide to leave or are kicked out by your host. While you are in a character's body, you may control that body as though it were your own. Use your own skills and Powers when doing so. Size Powers are an exception to this: use your host's Size Powers in place of your own. At the GM's discretion, you may be able to use other Stunts and Powers possessed by your host. In addition, the host's skills may modify your own.
You're Not Hurting Me. You cannot be targeted with physical attacks while in another character's body, barring special Powers or unusual circumstances. Characters looking to take you down violently will probably have to settle for knocking the person whose body you're using unconscious. Mental and social attacks can target you normally, though, and you may not transfer backlash or physical stress costs to your host.
Spiritual Eviction. If you end up controlling a host who wants you out, that host may engage you in an opposed Discipline roll. If they win, you are forced out of their body. If you entered their body with their consent, your host may attempt one such roll as soon as they decide to kick you out. Regardless, they may attempt one such roll every time you control their body for another continuous day and every time you use their body to damage them or something they care about. In extreme situations, such as forced suicide, your host may benefit from a circumstantial bonus to the opposed Discipline roll.
Abandoned Body. While you are in another character's body, you can act only through that body. Nobody save your host can perceive you unless they have The Sight or another such effect. If you have a physical body, it lies vulnerable until you leave your host. If you have the Spirit Form Power, you are entirely subsumed into your host until you leave into the area surrounding your host's body.
Hostile Possession [-2]. You may attempt to possess unwilling victims. This requires you to win a mental conflict, which uses the same timeframe and initiative as a physical fight. Discipline is used to attack and defend in that conflict. During the conflict, you are treated as though you were inside your target's body for the purposes of the Abandoned Body and You're Not Hurting Me Trappings. Taking an action in that conflict takes a character's full attention. If you lose the conflict, you fail to possess the target and can't try again until the next session. If you win, you possess the target normally.

[Tedronai]

Final clause of Possession trapping (hosts skills modifying yours) needs some guidance as to when it might suitably apply.

[KOFFEYKID]

I really dig that Possession rewrite. I've been wanting to play a possession based character for ages it was just never really feasible but with this... I think it can totally work.

As far as the line "In addition your host's skills may modify your own." I'd change it to be only physical, the idea being that no matter how much endurance you have you are going to suffer for possessing a character with only 1 endurance, or lower endurance, but mental skills should be relatively unaffected with perhaps the exception of lore and scholarship ("All your brainz are belong to me!") but that should come up less often than the physical skills.

I'm really liking it though I could totally see going:

-4 Sponsored Magic
+1 Human Form
-3 -Spirit Form
-1 -Possession
-2 --Hostile Possession


-edit-

I also feel like there should be an upgrade that lets you take advantage of the hosts Inhuman powers, certainly claws too so It might be more accurate to say physical powers. Tricky because you dont want the situation where a character is able to basically double dip on refresh from his own bank and the host's. Perhaps a sort of modular abilities refresh investment for what powers you can take advantage of on the host body?

[Sanctaphrax]

You guys have a point. Which capabilities of the host's you get to use should be clearer than it is.

I think I'll say physical Stunts and Powers and skills matter.

[Tedronai]

I can readily imagine some social stunts being available (such as those for having a reputation of a certain quality), and some physical stunts that would not (such as those relying on preficiency with particular techniques rather than physical conditioning)

[Sanctaphrax]

Yeah, the physical thing will have to be a rough guideline only.

[Lamech]

My biggest question is: Can you act outside of the mental conflict?  That is, if you're trying to enthrall me, can I just punch you?

Presumably yes, otherwise it would act as a super block. It is therefore strongly recommended that the target be helpless (or you be good enough to pull it off in combat rounds). Even a normal mortal will make quick work of a vampire if they are standing around trying to enthrall you. (Find flammable materials. Declare lighter. Craft impromptu torch. Mentally psyched. Torch master vampire. Declare they are weak to fire. Tag everything, and throw a fate points in. Compel the vampire's new consequence, burning to force it to have its eyes melt out. No more compulsions.)