Author Topic: How Do I Make A Great Recurring Villain?  (Read 7638 times)

Offline Silverblaze

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Re: How Do I Make A Great Recurring Villain?
« Reply #15 on: August 22, 2012, 02:18:13 AM »
Been dealing with Black Company in the current Dresden game I play in.  They fit well.

Other ways to make a recurring villain.

Something like Corpsetaker.  Works a lot like Malice of the Maruader team. (X-Men Villains)

Could always use Emperor Palpatine's trick via the novels.  Clone Banks!!!!

Offline Chrono

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Re: How Do I Make A Great Recurring Villain?
« Reply #16 on: August 22, 2012, 05:22:29 PM »
I have never heard of the series.

Something like Corpsetaker makes a lot of sense to me, especially if I can get her/it to switch with someone the PCs care about. I suppose the TV series featured a villain with a clone bank.

Offline Mr. Death

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Re: How Do I Make A Great Recurring Villain?
« Reply #17 on: August 22, 2012, 05:40:59 PM »
Also keep concessions in mind whenever the villain does run into conflict with the PCs. Not every fight has to be to the death.
Compels solve everything!

http://blur.by/1KgqJg6 My first book: "Brothers of the Curled Isles"

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Offline Chrono

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Re: How Do I Make A Great Recurring Villain?
« Reply #18 on: August 22, 2012, 05:48:30 PM »
Also keep concessions in mind whenever the villain does run into conflict with the PCs. Not every fight has to be to the death.

True, but how does one flee from death when the werewolf is grappling one to death and is compelled by another player to kill her and ignore her pleas for help?

Offline InFerrumVeritas

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Re: How Do I Make A Great Recurring Villain?
« Reply #19 on: August 22, 2012, 06:04:56 PM »
True, but how does one flee from death when the werewolf is grappling one to death and is compelled by another player to kill her and ignore her pleas for help?

It's a good question.  My general rule here would be that if the PCs are going to play that rough, my NPCs will too.  But that's escalation.

Sounds like an Accords problem.  Also, players can't compel each other.  They may invoke an aspect for effect, but all compels must go through the GM.  If you don't like the compel, you can veto it.

Offline Mr. Death

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Re: How Do I Make A Great Recurring Villain?
« Reply #20 on: August 22, 2012, 06:10:48 PM »
True, but how does one flee from death when the werewolf is grappling one to death and is compelled by another player to kill her and ignore her pleas for help?
The concession isn't an in-character thing, it's an out-of-character thing, which you negotiate.

So in this case, I'd suggest the concession is the villain managing to break free and run for his life.
Compels solve everything!

http://blur.by/1KgqJg6 My first book: "Brothers of the Curled Isles"

Quote from: Cozarkian
Not every word JB rights is a conspiracy. Sometimes, he's just telling a story.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC_T_mld7Acnm-0FVUiaKDPA The C-Team Podcast

Offline JDK002

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Re: How Do I Make A Great Recurring Villain?
« Reply #21 on: August 22, 2012, 07:06:00 PM »
Agreed on the concession deal.  While this game is a lot more collaboratve than most RPGs, the GM still has the final say on the big stuff like compels and concessions to a lesser extent.

While you villain was at the players mercy, the concession could be he gives up vital information the players need.  But manages to use the downtime to break free and run, and now that the players have what they need they let him run.  If the players don't go for it you can always sweeten the pot with a few fate points.

Offline Richard_Chilton

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Re: How Do I Make A Great Recurring Villain?
« Reply #22 on: August 22, 2012, 07:18:43 PM »
I have never heard of the series.

It's mentioned in the books because Harry reads them.  Before Changes he had the reissued hard covered editions on his bookshelf (mentioned in "Day Off" short story when the books are knocked over and fall on his head).

As mentioned by UmbraLux, virtually every important character in that series has a significant name.

The wizards because of how magic works - if you know a rival's True Name you can do very nasty things to him so they all take Use Names they use to describe themselves (and impress others).  The Limper has a limp, the Hanged Man has a twisted neck and rope scars on his neck, Tom-Tom beats a drum to focus his magic, etc.

The bulk of the other characters are members of a merc company where everyone takes a new name when they join - and if the boys don't like that name they just call the guy something else.  Pawnbroker (the company paymaster and loan shark) hates his name but that's what he's been labelled.  The company's doctor is named Croaker, the captain is Captain, etc.  Some of the names aren't really ear catching (there's Elmo, the Company's  chief sergeant), but using a name is a great way to make a character stand out.

You can find good villain names on the net.  Searching for "Dick Tracy villains" found a list that included: Pruneface, Pinkie the Stabber, Broadway Bates, Steve "The Tramp" Brogan, Dan "The Squealer" Mucelli, "Truffa" Dolan, Old Mike "The Smuggler", "Stooge" Viller, Deafy Sweetfellow, "Little Face" Finny, B.B. Eyes, 88 Keys - any of them could fit in a game. 

"You're looking for info on that? Well, you could try asking Pinkie the Stabber..." - and right there the players have a mental image of the NPC.  They're also wondering how he got his name, how does a name like "Pinkie" fit with "the Stabber", and as they wonder they become more invested in the NPC.

Richard

Offline Chrono

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Re: How Do I Make A Great Recurring Villain?
« Reply #23 on: August 23, 2012, 04:38:23 PM »
The name Elmo does bring a picture and personality to mind. Maybe a misleading name is useful, too. One of the players has serious Seseme Syndrome, thinking that most monsters are good and innocent and just misunderstood.

Offline Richard_Chilton

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Re: How Do I Make A Great Recurring Villain?
« Reply #24 on: August 23, 2012, 10:38:26 PM »
You're right - but I didn't think of that Elmo when I read it.  You see, that book pre-dates Elmo's arrival on the Street....

And now I feel old...

Richard

Offline Jabberwocky

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Re: How Do I Make A Great Recurring Villain?
« Reply #25 on: October 30, 2012, 01:59:23 PM »
All the previous answers are good. I will add another one - make the PCs somehow indebted to the villain. Let even the villain show kindness (albeit for his own manipulative reasons). Some foes are there just for hate but others may be respected. And this brings moral conflict inside of the characters. One example. I'm new to the series but speaking of Red Court vamps, let's rebuild the story of Harry and Bianca a bit for your needs.

(click to show/hide)

These are memorable villains :-)
A Hundred Towers? – Our Prague campaign.
Dramatis personae – Cast of characters, both PCs and NPCs.

Offline Chrono

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Re: How Do I Make A Great Recurring Villain?
« Reply #26 on: October 30, 2012, 02:42:46 PM »
A very good answer. I thank you for sharing it. Some of the players are starting new characters and looking for an entry story. It is the perfect time to introduce a new villain in the manner you described. <insert evil grin>

Offline Arcane257

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Re: How Do I Make A Great Recurring Villain?
« Reply #27 on: October 30, 2012, 02:43:26 PM »
I tried to introduce a Red Court Vampire as a recurring villain, and the werewolf in my group killed the vampire with a grapple. This occurred on Accorded Neutral grounds, so I have plenty of opportunities to work with the results, but now I am left without a recurring villain.

How do I create a great recurring villain that my players will love to hate? And how do I make them grapple-proof?

Your players already made one for you. You now get to spend the rest of the campaign having Mab torture and hound them for violating the accords. I would make her vengeance so wonderfully awful that it leaves at least the werewolf character wishing for death.... not that The Queen of Air and Darkness would allow that.  ;)

Offline Chrono

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Re: How Do I Make A Great Recurring Villain?
« Reply #28 on: October 30, 2012, 02:46:53 PM »
0.0

You know what? I haven't even introduced Mab into the campaign.

Offline JDK002

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Re: How Do I Make A Great Recurring Villain?
« Reply #29 on: October 30, 2012, 03:45:56 PM »
Another thing to consider is the "comic book villain" approach in the instance the villain does die per game mechanics.  The great villains never truly die, even when they technically DO die.  They always come back eventually in some way, shape, or form.

Some standard tropes for this are:

It was a clone, a double, a cyborg robot, a magical construct, their twin brother, ect.

It was the villains body, but his mind is still in tact in some way.  Magically projecting the entirety of his mind into someone else (this would make for a fantastic death curse IMO), digitally uploaded his brain into the form of an AI, ect.

The villain had kin.  A son who's the spitting image of the villain, a parent who's even more of a terror than the guy you killed, a vengeful spouse, ect.

The villain is so powerful/clever that he managed to cheat death.  He had minions who followed the villains "plan Z" and brought him back to life, the villain is so ruthless and tenacious that he actually managed to find a way out of whatever afterlife he was in and come back to the realm of the living, having a deal with some dark power that prevents him from dying before a set time/circumstance, ect.

The bumbling clueless person who accidentally brings them back.  Reading from some old creepy book some teenagers find in a cabin, a would be warlock accidentally brings back the past/alternate universe version of the villain into the present day.

Some of these examples obviously don't work in the Dersdenverse, and I wouldn't use these as a crutch if the players keep killing your villain over and over again.  If your intended recurring villains keep dying, then they probably aren't very good villains in the first place.  So you as a GM need to be a good villain, always have a backup plan!  ;D