Sponsored Magic and Hexing

[PapaD]

One of the questions that my group has recently raised is whether or not someone with only sponsored magic (no evocation or thaum etc) would experience the automatic hexing that wizards suffer from.

Can the knights of the fae courts use technology, would someone who only had access to soulfire still be able to use computers and mobile phones?

Any thoughts?

[YPU]

I was wondering this myself, thanks for bringing it up here.

To do some speculation of my own, I don't think there is ever mention of the knights hexing anything but neither can I remember them using anything particularly modern. By the same token the knights we do know about weren't as much magic focused as far as I know. Fix was chosen for obvious reasons and Slate was more of a fitting personality than anything else I guess. Reuel might have been a bad ass magic user but we will never know.

To get a bit more fluffy, hexing is caused by the "magic static" created when a mortal bends reality to his will right? One could ague the mortal is stepping outside his prerogative and breaking the rules (of reality or whatever) by being magical. In the case of sponsored magic the power doesn't come from them but rather their sponsor, so the use of power would be far less jarring. After all the mortal is more a conduit then a source of power.

In the end I could see it going either way, and I would love for one of the other forum members to jump in and point out some obvious thing we are missing.

[Sanctaphrax]

Oh, hey, this again.

Long story short, there's no right answer.

[InFerrumVeritas]

Given what we see with the Knights, I don't think so.  However, that's just my opinion.

Nothing is specified anywhere one way or the other.  No WoJ, not explicit in the rules, and not actually spelled (aha) out in the novels.

So talk to your table.  Come to a consensus.  Remember that Hexing isn't necessarily bad (you get fate points).  Have a vote if you must.  Then move on.

(My table voted "No.")

[Chrono]

Well Fix could still fix Harry's car after he became the Summer Knight, so I imagine that counts for something. Also Bob can access the Internet, so fae magic does not hex technology. Other sponsors might, depending on the nature of their magic, but the fae-sponsors seem compatible with modern tech.

[UmbraLux]

I agree with Sanctaphrax.  Like many things this is left to individual groups to decide.

[Tedronai]

Well Fix could still fix Harry's car after he became the Summer Knight, so I imagine that counts for something.

We don't really know how deeply Fix has embraced his sponsored magic, either, so, while this does 'count for something', it doesn't count for very much.

Also Bob can access the Internet, so fae magic does not hex technology.

Only Mortal practitioners suffer from accidental Hexing in the first place, so this is not evidence in either direction.



The reason for accidental hexing is relatively clearly explained.
Accidental hexing is a product of a Mortal's Free Will causing their magic to 'leak' out of them in relatively small but uncontrolled manner as their attention, intention, purpose, and even their fundamental nature shifts from moment to moment.
Mortals are conflicted.  They are at war with themselves.
With magic stemming from the directed Will of an individual, a conflicted Will creates turbulent energies that surround the individual.
This magical 'turbulence', then, is responsible for accidentally hexing susceptible technology in the Practitioner's presence.

[InFerrumVeritas]

The reason for accidental hexing is relatively clearly explained.
Accidental hexing is a product of a Mortal's Free Will causing their magic to 'leak' out of them in relatively small but uncontrolled manner as their attention, intention, purpose, and even their fundamental nature shifts from moment to moment.
Mortals are conflicted.  They are at war with themselves.
With magic stemming from the directed Will of an individual, a conflicted Will creates turbulent energies that surround the individual.
This magical 'turbulence', then, is responsible for accidentally hexing susceptible technology in the Practitioner's presence.

Thematically, one of our sponsored characters hexes, the other doesn't (Hexes aren't bad! You get yummy fate points for them). 

The first is sponsored by Orpheus, but was a practitioner before gaining a sponsor.  I let him replace his Channeling and Ritual with Sponsored Magic.  The idea is, he's not gaining spells from Orpheus, but rather insight into rarer and more complicated forms of the magic he already practiced.  I would treat things like Hellfire as similar.  Essentially, they're learning magic with greater direction and insight.

The other is sponsored by the Olympian pantheon (our campaign deals a lot with Greek mythology, as the Olympians are a major player in our city).  He doesn't hex because without the Gods directly granting him power he doesn't have access to his magic.  There's no conflict in his nature with the magic, as he's simply a conduit for their power.  I would treat Faerie magic this way, unless the character was also a practitioner (that is, had Evocation or Thaumaturgy).

Just a further explanation of my 2 cents, although I still stand by talking to your table and coming to a consensus.  The above isn't "right" or "wrong."  It's just how we play.  Since the designers and Jim haven't weighed in, it's the best we've got.

[Todjaeger]

I'm inclined to take a somewhat opposing view, but that isn't just to be contrary.

By that I mean there is a "right" answer vs. a wrong answer in terms of Sponsored Magic and Hexing.  Namely, the "right" answer is what works at your own gaming table.

Having said that, I do have my own thoughts on Hexing.  Hexing basically breaks down into two types, these are deliberate Hexing and accidental Hexing.  Any type of magic can/should be able to deliberately Hex something.  The accidental Hexing should really be limited to mortal magic, and possibly Hellfire Sponsored Magic.

There have been a few instances so far in the novels and short stories where one type or another of non-mortal magic was used to deliberately disrupt technology.  There has also been a few very clear examples where non-mortals who had potent magic didn't suffer the ill-effects of accidental Hexing that occurs to Harry.

In Last Call for instances,

(click to show/hide)

a "woman" uses a credit card to purchase somethings at a cheap magic/variety shop in Chicago.  That confirms to Harry to whatever the "woman" was, she/it wasn't mortal since the magnetic strip in Harry's credit cards never function for more than a few hours, so he doesn't bother with them.  The "woman" on the other hand, didn't encounter any sort of problem like that.

That sort of thing does make me think that a mortal instrument of sponsored magic isn't going to suffer from accidentally Hexing things, unless doing so fits within the Agenda of the Sponsor.  Hence my inclination to have that applicable to Hellfire, since that is about chaos/disruption/destruction and also not being very nice to anyone, including those who wield Hellfire...  Now if the person with Sponsored Magic was also a practioner (or had Mana Static), then they could still accidentally Hex things, but that would be because of something innate to them, and not because of a Sponsor.

-Cheers

[InFerrumVeritas]

I'm inclined to take a somewhat opposing view, but that isn't just to be contrary.

By that I mean there is a "right" answer vs. a wrong answer in terms of Sponsored Magic and Hexing.  Namely, the "right" answer is what works at your own gaming table.

Having said that, I do have my own thoughts on Hexing.  Hexing basically breaks down into two types, these are deliberate Hexing and accidental Hexing.  Any type of magic can/should be able to deliberately Hex something.  The accidental Hexing should really be limited to mortal magic, and possibly Hellfire Sponsored Magic.

There have been a few instances so far in the novels and short stories where one type or another of non-mortal magic was used to deliberately disrupt technology.  There has also been a few very clear examples where non-mortals who had potent magic didn't suffer the ill-effects of accidental Hexing that occurs to Harry.

In Last Call for instances,

(click to show/hide)

a "woman" uses a credit card to purchase somethings at a cheap magic/variety shop in Chicago.  That confirms to Harry to whatever the "woman" was, she/it wasn't mortal since the magnetic strip in Harry's credit cards never function for more than a few hours, so he doesn't bother with them.  The "woman" on the other hand, didn't encounter any sort of problem like that.

That sort of thing does make me think that a mortal instrument of sponsored magic isn't going to suffer from accidentally Hexing things, unless doing so fits within the Agenda of the Sponsor.  Hence my inclination to have that applicable to Hellfire, since that is about chaos/disruption/destruction and also not being very nice to anyone, including those who wield Hellfire...  Now if the person with Sponsored Magic was also a practioner (or had Mana Static), then they could still accidentally Hex things, but that would be because of something innate to them, and not because of a Sponsor.

-Cheers

That's basically the exact same view.  Not opposite at all...