Author Topic: Universe Mechanics - Hexing, Soul Gazing, Magic Talent and the FedGov  (Read 5908 times)

Offline eiredrake

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My thoughts are all over the place on this, imagining possibilities here. So I apologize in advance if this seems disjointed.

Hexing - If an empowered circle keeps out errant magic, couldn't Harry or any other wizard just make a circle around their ultra expensive 50 inch plasma TV to keep it from frizzing out? Couldn't they get a modern speaker phone that answers to voice commands and put that in a circle to allow him to have decent voice conversations over the phone? If Harry were to ward a water heater or other appliance with a circle or an actual ward couldn't he then use them? What if the actual electronics stuff wasn't in the vicinity? It is apparent that Harry has some sort of Area of Effect wherein the stuff he is around fizzles.

Personally if I was Butters one of the first thing I'd do is get some cheap discard able circuit boards and mount LEDs on them (hardware hackers call them 'throwies') and lay them out every six cm or so and see if I could determine the area of interference around Harry. Then I'd start trying to map it out. Accidental and deliberate hexing almost sounds like the Wizard is generating some sort of biological EMP field.

Soul Gazing - This one has always puzzled me. When I look back at myself a mere 10 years ago I know that I am a fundamentally different person than I am at this moment now that I am both a husband and a father. But the books hint that once you've soul gazed a person you never need to do it again. Even looking at Murphy before Dresden's date with destiny in Changes/Ghost Story, she's not quite the same person afterwards. If  Wizard had soul gazed me 10 years ago, would he not see something different now?

What about if in that intervening time I had become a black court vampire? Surely that would completely change what I looked like?

Magical Talent: Was just listening to the audio book of Side Jobs and came across the one told from Thomas's perspective. He outright says in there that Magic is a skill like anything else. Any bozo can learn how to do it it's just that some people are better at it than others just like (insert modern equivalent here) Michael Jordan was so much better than most people at playing basketball. I'm pretty sure Harry said that in Ghost Story (which I am listening to now) as well.

Doesn't that mean that I could in fact pick up some minor to middling spells over time sorta like the way a boyscout can pick up first aid with no major formal training but brain surgery is going to be beyond him without intensive training and natural talent?

Since magic is basically just a bunch of powers doesn't that mean if I can pay the refresh I can suddenly develop magical power over time? But is that really likely universe wise or is that just a quirk of game mechanics. Or was Thomas talking ritual magic rather than evocation or thaumaturgy? I seem to remember Harry calling ritual magic a vending machine where you put a quarter in one side and out pops a magical effect on the other.

At that point too.... what happens to the electronics I use every day. I personally IRL am a software engineer. Say one day I'm dabbling with Cthulhu Summoning 101, summon a Puppy Of Tindalos and realize it works. Suddenly I'm trying to learn everything I can (which I can tell you IRL would definitely happen to me in that situation). Does this mean I can't be a software engineer anymore because every time I come near a computer it's going to crap itself? Or is that only when I'm actively using power? Or alternatively is it only when you have a level of actual talent rather than any real 'book learnin'.

Even better, what would happen if a mortal developed (for whatever reason) 'The Sight'. I remember one of the case files had some drug that did it. But what if it happened because of some development of the person? Would they go crazy without proper training? Maybe that crazy homeless guy on the corner isn't actually crazy, maybe he just can't shut off The Sight and the stuff he sees is real.

Fedgov: Lastly, thus far in the books we have had a supernaturally aware police division and four FBI agents that had the ability to wolf out. I can't believe that the US (or any other) government would be unable to discover that magic and the supernatural exists. Upon discovering it I cannot believe for one instant that they would not immediately set DARPA out to exploit it for anything it's worth.

The only reason I can see there not being a secret CIA Wizard pool is that maybe the White Council doesn't let that happen. But if someone can sneak wolf belts to four FBI agents who's to say there isn't a group of hidden Kemmlerites hanging out with or manipulating the federal law enforcement and intelligence agencies? Even if Harry and the council (and supernaturals in general) feel like bringing in the Mortal authorities is the equivalent of a nuclear strike doesn't mean absolutely nobody would be willing to do it just to see the world burn.

Thoughts?
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Offline Mr. Death

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Re: Universe Mechanics - Hexing, Soul Gazing, Magic Talent and the FedGov
« Reply #1 on: August 14, 2012, 06:34:07 PM »
My thoughts are all over the place on this, imagining possibilities here. So I apologize in advance if this seems disjointed.

Hexing - If an empowered circle keeps out errant magic, couldn't Harry or any other wizard just make a circle around their ultra expensive 50 inch plasma TV to keep it from frizzing out? Couldn't they get a modern speaker phone that answers to voice commands and put that in a circle to allow him to have decent voice conversations over the phone? If Harry were to ward a water heater or other appliance with a circle or an actual ward couldn't he then use them? What if the actual electronics stuff wasn't in the vicinity? It is apparent that Harry has some sort of Area of Effect wherein the stuff he is around fizzles.
The power cords would break the circle, or not allow you to put one up in the first place. Plus, if it's Harry making the circle, that traps Harry's own magic inside the circle with it.

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Soul Gazing - This one has always puzzled me. When I look back at myself a mere 10 years ago I know that I am a fundamentally different person than I am at this moment now that I am both a husband and a father. But the books hint that once you've soul gazed a person you never need to do it again. Even looking at Murphy before Dresden's date with destiny in Changes/Ghost Story, she's not quite the same person afterwards. If  Wizard had soul gazed me 10 years ago, would he not see something different now?
Word of Jim is that if a person changes significantly enough, yes, a second Soulgaze could occur.

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What about if in that intervening time I had become a black court vampire? Surely that would completely change what I looked like?
Yes. It would mean you don't have a soul and thus couldn't be soulgazed.

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Magical Talent: Was just listening to the audio book of Side Jobs and came across the one told from Thomas's perspective. He outright says in there that Magic is a skill like anything else. Any bozo can learn how to do it it's just that some people are better at it than others just like (insert modern equivalent here) Michael Jordan was so much better than most people at playing basketball. I'm pretty sure Harry said that in Ghost Story (which I am listening to now) as well.

Doesn't that mean that I could in fact pick up some minor to middling spells over time sorta like the way a boyscout can pick up first aid with no major formal training but brain surgery is going to be beyond him without intensive training and natural talent?
Thomas is talking ritual magic, rather than evocation. That sort of thing would fall under the "Common Ritual" trapping of Lore.

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Fedgov: Lastly, thus far in the books we have had a supernaturally aware police division and four FBI agents that had the ability to wolf out. I can't believe that the US (or any other) government would be unable to discover that magic and the supernatural exists. Upon discovering it I cannot believe for one instant that they would not immediately set DARPA out to exploit it for anything it's worth.
They may well be. Remember that the video of Harry and Murphy killing the Loup Garou was very quickly and conspicuously disappeared and claimed as a hoax.
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Offline THE_ANGRY_GAMER

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Re: Universe Mechanics - Hexing, Soul Gazing, Magic Talent and the FedGov
« Reply #2 on: August 14, 2012, 07:09:07 PM »
They may well be. Remember that the video of Harry and Murphy killing the Loup Garou was very quickly and conspicuously disappeared and claimed as a hoax.

We also have WoJ that the Library of Congress Special Collections Division is clued-in and seriously badass.
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Offline amberpup

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Re: Universe Mechanics - Hexing, Soul Gazing, Magic Talent and the FedGov
« Reply #3 on: August 14, 2012, 08:17:11 PM »
Personally if I was Butters one of the first thing I'd do is get some cheap discard able circuit boards and mount LEDs on them (hardware hackers call them 'throwies') and lay them out every six cm or so and see if I could determine the area of interference around Harry. Then I'd start trying to map it out. Accidental and deliberate hexing almost sounds like the Wizard is generating some sort of biological EMP field.

Then Butters would know the probabiy dimensions of Harry's (or Molly's) hex field. Now when Merlin showed up, all that would get toss out the window. Additionally for whatever good Harry and Butters could use that knowledge for, countless of his enemies could use the same to harm Harry. Plus, its never a 24/7 time of thing for Harry. The reason Harry doesn't have a gas hot water heater isn't because it won't stop working as soon as they get it installed. He just don't want to wake-up one of these mornings with the smell of gas weeks, months, or years later.

Its a real roll of the dice...

Offline eiredrake

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Re: Universe Mechanics - Hexing, Soul Gazing, Magic Talent and the FedGov
« Reply #4 on: August 14, 2012, 08:20:40 PM »
The power cords would break the circle, or not allow you to put one up in the first place. Plus, if it's Harry making the circle, that traps Harry's own magic inside the circle with it.

Ok what if it's battery powered. And if Harry's on the outside of the circle then his magic is trapped outside right? If the device is on the inside then it should work shouldn't it?

They may well be. Remember that the video of Harry and Murphy killing the Loup Garou was very quickly and conspicuously disappeared and claimed as a hoax.

Which makes me question who exactly disappeared it? Could be White Council. Could be Cancerman.
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Offline eiredrake

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Re: Universe Mechanics - Hexing, Soul Gazing, Magic Talent and the FedGov
« Reply #5 on: August 14, 2012, 08:28:33 PM »
Then Butters would know the probabiy dimensions of Harry's (or Molly's) hex field. Now when Merlin showed up, all that would get toss out the window. Additionally for whatever good Harry and Butters could use that knowledge for, countless of his enemies could use the same to harm Harry. Plus, its never a 24/7 time of thing for Harry. The reason Harry doesn't have a gas hot water heater isn't because it won't stop working as soon as they get it installed. He just don't want to wake-up one of these mornings with the smell of gas weeks, months, or years later.

Its a real roll of the dice...

That's a good point actually. Though if he gets upset it happens more easily even if he doesn't hexus it himself. Maybe that would help.

I just think that if Butters could experiment like that the Gov could experiment too either with a captured wizard or sorcerer or someone who's come into power and has a loyalty streak. Jim hasn't really covered it but that doesn't mean it's not happening. Almost all his stories are told from Harry's perspective and Harry doesn't really hang around with the Feds.

Which would lead me to the conclusion of the Spooky Culty FBI guy from (Agent Milton Dammers) Frighteners. Hrm.. I might have to co-opt him for an NPC. Even if he doesn't have any real power he'd still be an awesome NPC just thinking he had power. Like he learns one ritual and thinks he's a wizard.
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Offline amberpup

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Re: Universe Mechanics - Hexing, Soul Gazing, Magic Talent and the FedGov
« Reply #6 on: August 14, 2012, 08:34:59 PM »
Ok what if it's battery powered. And if Harry's on the outside of the circle then his magic is trapped outside right? If the device is on the inside then it should work shouldn't it?

I thought the same thing, but with a generator... then you would need to add a Blu-ray player since the tv cable would do the same. But you still have the same problems, turning stuff on, hitting play, and then raising the circle. You still could end up hexing stuff while getting stuff ready, unless you're willing to encircle Butters and let him turn all the stuff on.

In the end, its just not worth the effort...

Offline Sanctaphrax

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Re: Universe Mechanics - Hexing, Soul Gazing, Magic Talent and the FedGov
« Reply #7 on: August 14, 2012, 08:37:17 PM »
Hexing is avoidable and preventable to an extent. So a circle around the computer could work, if you jumped through enough hoops.

Probably not worth the effort, though, unless you're either very weak or very good at controlling your power or very dedicated to computer use.

As for anyone being able to pick up magic, anyone can take any Power. But you need to justify it narratively, satisfy the Musts, and spend the Refresh.

Offline eiredrake

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Re: Universe Mechanics - Hexing, Soul Gazing, Magic Talent and the FedGov
« Reply #8 on: August 14, 2012, 08:44:28 PM »
Hexing is avoidable and preventable to an extent. So a circle around the computer could work, if you jumped through enough hoops.

Probably not worth the effort, though, unless you're either very weak or very good at controlling your power or very dedicated to computer use.

As for anyone being able to pick up magic, anyone can take any Power. But you need to justify it narratively, satisfy the Musts, and spend the Refresh.

Yeah I also note that stunts are 'mortal stunts' but like, Bucky the Murder Doll has one. That confused me a bit.
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Offline amberpup

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Re: Universe Mechanics - Hexing, Soul Gazing, Magic Talent and the FedGov
« Reply #9 on: August 14, 2012, 08:46:35 PM »
My other thought about the tv was, why would Harry even care for all the new tech when his old tv works fine enough for him. As for a computer, he has things called books to research stuff in.

Kinda like my mother, never had a computer so she never misses on now.

But from his one-liners, Harry must had watch a buttload of 1980's tv shows.

Offline THE_ANGRY_GAMER

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Re: Universe Mechanics - Hexing, Soul Gazing, Magic Talent and the FedGov
« Reply #10 on: August 14, 2012, 09:43:24 PM »
Yeah I also note that stunts are 'mortal stunts' but like, Bucky the Murder Doll has one. That confused me a bit.

'Mortal' stunts just mean that they're not supernatural, and can be done by mortals.
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Offline eiredrake

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Re: Universe Mechanics - Hexing, Soul Gazing, Magic Talent and the FedGov
« Reply #11 on: August 15, 2012, 01:53:58 AM »
My other thought about the tv was, why would Harry even care for all the new tech when his old tv works fine enough for him. As for a computer, he has things called books to research stuff in.

Kinda like my mother, never had a computer so she never misses on now.

But from his one-liners, Harry must had watch a buttload of 1980's tv shows.

I was thinking more like Wizards who are born now. If you're born during the current decade in the 'first world' you're growing up around plethora of computers of all descriptions. Even supposed third world nations are more apt to see smart cellphones than analogue telephone lines these days because the infrastructure required for analogue is a hell of a lot more extensive than just putting up a few cellphone towers.

So would wizards growing up these days not be able to play an Xbox without a RRD?
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Offline YPU

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Re: Universe Mechanics - Hexing, Soul Gazing, Magic Talent and the FedGov
« Reply #12 on: August 15, 2012, 09:59:27 AM »
Actually Hexing is nothing like EMP, it just looks that way at first glance since modern digital is the first thing to go out. Hexing can stop a steam train if the wizard is old enough, that's not something EMP can do.

As for the government or military or any larger organized having a supernatural branch, I don't see it happening. Not on a large scale in any case. See say a small part of the FBI is supernaturally aware and uses it in in their work to gain an edge over the "bad guys" seems like an interesting campaign actually. But should they grow, they will need to acquire space and people and money and material. Sooner or later they will have some sub division or whatever, it will have a name a stated purpose and quarterly numbers of what they did. Now perhaps you can get a guy one or two rugs up the ladder to help your division out for a while and keep it on a need to know basis. But sooner or later someone up the line with more stars or whatever is going to see that name in a report, see the resources it is eating and what they are supposed to do and he is going to shut it or down or seriously decrease their budget at the very least. Its a economic crisis out there and we don't have the funds to frivolously spend on whatever your doing down there. No I wont come and look at what it is, I'm a rational man who doesn't believe in magic and besides no good Christian would allow such things, god forbid.  ::)

The way governments are run don't lend themselves well to magic focused departments, it simply doesn't fly for long. As mentioned tough a division focused on information, especially history and the like will be far more effective at breeding a in the know crowd. However these sort of organizations are less do and more observe and anallize in nature most of the time.

Mind all of that is purely my 2 cents.
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Offline THE_ANGRY_GAMER

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Re: Universe Mechanics - Hexing, Soul Gazing, Magic Talent and the FedGov
« Reply #13 on: August 15, 2012, 10:07:01 AM »
The way governments are run don't lend themselves well to magic focused departments, it simply doesn't fly for long. As mentioned tough a division focused on information, especially history and the like will be far more effective at breeding a in the know crowd. However these sort of organizations are less do and more observe and anallize in nature most of the time.

Library of Congress. Special Collections Division. To quote Jim: 'Don't mess with the Librarians. Holy Moly. Just don't.'  :o 8)
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Offline YPU

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Re: Universe Mechanics - Hexing, Soul Gazing, Magic Talent and the FedGov
« Reply #14 on: August 15, 2012, 10:08:57 AM »
Library of Congress. Special Collections Division. To quote Jim: 'Don't mess with the Librarians. Holy Moly. Just don't.'  :o 8)
Exactly what I was referring to.  ;D
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