[Alternate Setting] You mean magic works?!

[UmbraLux]

If you were to make magic publicly known in some alternate DF setting, how would you do so?  What would the public and / or government reaction be?

Shadowrun used an apocalyptic ritual - a darkhallow type ritual might do something similar.  Some fictional settings have various supernatural groups 'coming out'.  Others use some supernatural event as a trigger.  How would you 'publicize' magic in a DF setting?

[tetrasodium]

Well that depends on a lot of stuff.

• Are we talking... right now lightswitch change, how prevalent would talented former mortals be & how powerful?
• decades past change... during war (i.e. ww1/ww2), social upheaval (imagine how civil rights marches would have gone if there were fireballs, lightning, & demons instead of firehoses & dogs.  Im,agine if those supernatural attacks were met by supernatural responses),  or relative peacetime?
• always been that way change?  That goes from utopia all the way to tippyverse style stuff with everything inbetween without even getting into the potential apocalyptic helllscapes

They would all result in extremely different outcomes.  Look at what's going on at the time & how the level of magic bering infused on folks that were potentially in the dark yesterday would react.

[Richard_Chilton]

It's easier to set a game a couple of years (or a generation) after the big reveal than during the big reveal.

During the big reveal, that's a time of madness.  Vigilantes "dealing" with suspected supernaturals.  People fearing that their minds are being read and their families targeted.  Governments thrashing out blinding at things they don't understand.

In the DV, the last time there was a "the supernatural is out" moment the Inquisition was born.  The best of intentions by a hidden church brotherhood led to a bloodbath that lasted for decades.

That's why most "magic came back" games and novels are set 2 to 5 years, or a generation (i.e. the kids who were in grade school when "it" happened are now in the workforce) after the big reveal.

Richard

[AstronaughtAndy]

I've always liked the idea of the POTUS making an address to the American people declaring magic to be real.

[Lamech]

I'm going to guess magical arms race. Especially since there are all most certainly ways to build up the mortal magical power base if one tried. Also while insane necromancers won't preform their ascension rituals on a desert island, a lot of the nicer governments would certainly try. The industrial revolution would happen to magic. I don't see anything good coming of this.

[UmbraLux]

I've always liked the idea of the POTUS making an address to the American people declaring magic to be real.

Hehe, an amusing thought. 

Are we talking... right now lightswitch change, how prevalent would talented former mortals be & how powerful?

Talking about using the Dresdenverse as the beginning.  So it's been around but has been secret until...what?  Perhaps killing the entire Red Court was too obvious...too many dead to hide some of whom must have been influential.  Perhaps something else...

It's easier to set a game a couple of years (or a generation) after the big reveal than during the big reveal.

During the big reveal, that's a time of madness.  Vigilantes "dealing" with suspected supernaturals.  People fearing that their minds are being read and their families targeted.  Governments thrashing out blinding at things they don't understand.

If it was a sudden reveal I suspect you'd be correct - though that time of chaos could be an interesting setting.  Is a "big reveal" the only option?  For that matter, you make a case for those in power being aware of it since the Inquisition...wouldn't that lessen the impact of a public reveal?

I'm going to guess magical arms race. Especially since there are all most certainly ways to build up the mortal magical power base if one tried. Also while insane necromancers won't preform their ascension rituals on a desert island, a lot of the nicer governments would certainly try. The industrial revolution would happen to magic. I don't see anything good coming of this.

I'm not sure magic is repeatable enough for an 'industrial' revolution.  The WC uses widespread publication to make spells powerless.  That alone might drive a need to keep your spells secret.

-----
Thanks for the ideas so far! 

[Heregrim]

You could argue that the Paranet is a soft outing of the magical world.  Seems in what I have read all you have to do is do a basic search and you can find out whatever you want.  The public just doesn't want to look.

As for how I imagine a hard outing a magic would work is like the Red/White war only it actually spills over into the streets. Or like whatever that Dragon's name in shadowrun (I am just drawing up The Big D) that ran for President and won only to be assassinated, which caused other dragons to publicly respond.

[ways and means]

Governments would use Wizards as weapons, it might start a nuclear war (hexed silo's and MAD etc), the white council would likely end up clashing with the police (being a bunch of vigilante murders legally) and the white court vamps would probably use the chaos to advance their interests. You may see supernatural death squads (witch hunters) and open fighting between the real world and the denizens of the never never (you walk into a fairy ring and you will get whisked away etc). The Black Council would likely use the opportunity to seize power over the wizards and you might finally see their end game. 

[Lamech]

If it was a sudden reveal I suspect you'd be correct - though that time of chaos could be an interesting setting.  Is a "big reveal" the only option?  For that matter, you make a case for those in power being aware of it since the Inquisition...wouldn't that lessen the impact of a public reveal?

I've always thought the way to do it, would be too many of the big boiling over actions have happened. Zombies running through Chicago, the Nevernever wall increasing ghost activity, the general boiling over of magical conflict and slowly everyone knows. Of course, everyone shuts their mouth so they don't go to the funny farm. Then, someone goes on T.V. and yells: "the king monsters have no clothes secrecy." And then everyone pulls out their supersoakers filled with holy water/iron-salts, bloody hula-hoops (instant circle)  and blessed Molotov cocktails, and its open season on baddies. The big reveal isn't telling people about the supernatural world, the big reveal is telling people everyone knows already.

I'm not sure magic is repeatable enough for an 'industrial' revolution.  The WC uses widespread publication to make spells powerless.  That alone might drive a need to keep your spells secret.

Those are specific rituals. Those can't be industrialized, nor improved. They aren't human magic anyway. But there are other ways to revolutionize magic. Start mass harnessing the emotional power of humans. Make sure all slaughtered animals have their life extracted. Train anyone who can learn magic (like random college kids). Also of import using magic affects if your kids have magic. If the idea that being able to sense magic is what lets people be wizards, give them a weaker three eye, and you have artificial wizards. Also I'm pretty sure that drawing on external power sources heavily helps you build magical muscle: I think Victor Sells did that to be stronger than Harry for example.

[Becq]

The X-men 'history' might have some useful material for you to adapt.

Oh, and the government reaction would be to find a way to tax it, if possible, or ban it if not.

[Richard_Chilton]

If it was a sudden reveal I suspect you'd be correct - though that time of chaos could be an interesting setting.  Is a "big reveal" the only option?  For that matter, you make a case for those in power being aware of it since the Inquisition...wouldn't that lessen the impact of a public reveal?

I don't watch much Star Gate, but I did see the start of one episode when the newly elected president is being told The Secret.  His initial reaction was "Good one, you had me going there for a minute", followed by "Wait, the Earth's been invaded I didn't know about it?".

In theory, we could have a star gate and only the people at the top know about it.  In theory, in the DV, the president and the "Gang of Eight" might know all about magic.  There could be small scale SI type groups working for every nation's government - a bit like White Wolf's Vampire the Masquerade game where you had "Project Twilight" handling X File stuff.  Small, elite teams that know magic is out there and doing what they can, answering only to the top level of the government.

But that's not magic being public.

No, magic being made public means we all hear about it.  When the secret becomes common knowledge - and there's got to be a big reveal to have that happen.  Even if 100,000 people in the DV version of the USA know and accept that magic real, hundreds of millions don't.  There's paranet, there are those weirdos who join the DV version T:. T:. and other "magic groups", then there's the average man who has never encountered magic.  The big reveal is for the last group.

How would they react? I'm not sure, but probably with fear and maybe with hatred.  All it takes is one "They're of the DEVIL" preacher on the radio and people will wonder if they are safe from wizards.

Think of it this way:
A wizard could walk up to the POTUS and cast a lightening bolt to kill him.  There is no way to detect if the person is a wizard and no way to disarm him - and there might be a wizard who's also a terrorist, so the POTUS isn't safe.  If the POTUS isn't safe, then how am I safe? How do I protect my family?
A wizard could read my mind and learn all my dirtiest secrets.
A wizard could cast a spell on me and make me do terrible things.

Ah, you say, there are laws of magic against that.
But who makes the laws? Wizards.
Who detects when the laws are broken? Wizards.
Who enforces the laws? Wizards.
So I'm supposed to believe that wizards will keep me safe from wizards? Really?

Then there's the fact that terrible things happen to nice people.  When there's a strong belief in magic there's usually scapegoating.  Here's the "logic" behind it:
Your crops failed? Obviously someone cast a spell on them to make them fail.  Is it that weirdo? Maybe if we kill that weirdo we'll be safe.

Could a wizard make your crops fail? Probably.  Can that guy prove that he didn't? No.  Can he even prove that he's not a wizard? Of course not.

Take away the paranoia and it still doesn't look good for wizards:
Reporter: "So there are real vampires out there? Do wizards protect us from them?"
Wizard: "No, we signed the Accords so we don't fight them except in certain circumstance."
Reporter: "Oh, but there are these things from another world called fairies that prey on people.  Do wizards protect us from them?"
Wizard: "No, we signed the Accords so we don't fight them except in certain circumstance."
Reporter: "Oh, but there are Fallen Angels riding in coins and preying on people.  Do wizards protect us from them?"
Wizard: "No, we signed the Accords so we don't fight them except in certain circumstance."
Reporters: "So you don't protect us from any supernatural threat - WTF good are you? Hey, my cousin disappeared three years ago - did something eat him? Did something you made a deal with eat my cousin?"

Or even the laws of magic:
Reporter (in a different interview): "Your group enforces these seven laws of magic, is that right?"
Wizard: "Yes."
Reporter; "And in most cases, your group is the only ones who can detect if those laws have been broken, is that right?"
Wizard: "Yes."
many questions later
Reporter: "So you're saying that there are seven laws of magic, which your group came up with.  Yours is the only group that knows if someone is breaking them.  You have a paramilitary wing that arrests people for breaking these laws of magic.  That group is authorised to use lethal force when 'arresting' suspects.  If they survive an arrest, your group gives them a trial where they are not allowed lawyers, fifth amendment rights, and the trials almost always end with an execution.  You do this even though you have no backing from any state, federal, or international authority.  Have I got that right?"
Wizard: "More or less."
Reporter: "Then may I ask how many US Citizens you have murdered this way?"

And the wizards are the nicest supernaturals out there.

If I lived in the DV during the big reveal, I wouldn't want to work the night shift - because if I only came out at night then people might thing I was a vampire.  No, I'd make a point to be out in the daylight.  And I might even carry an iron nail to poke myself with to prove that I'm not a fairy.  And that I bleed red blood.  Because there would be scared people who would want to see that proof and I don't want a mob to lynch me.  And they might do that anyway, because they are frightened by what they don't understand.

But give it a year or two and things will calm down.  Humanity can get used to anything.  History has shown that when we get hit with real fear - from the fear of WWIII to terrorist bombs - we slowly slowly adapt to the new normal and get on with life.

Richard

[GryMor]

The Council may still be able to get some good press for their zero tolerance policies on casters violating humans. The self policing pattern has worked for many other professions and industries. You may also get people to avoid vigilantism if you warn them about the dangers of death curses and make reporting people easy, though I'd expect a lot of false positives.

[AstronaughtAndy]

I also like to imagine there are PSAs or those celebrity "The More You Know" things that NBC runs with helpful hints for protecting yourself from the supernatural.

"Hi, I'm Nic Cage. If a stranger comes to your house at night, don't invite him in."

[Lamech]

The Council may still be able to get some good press for their zero tolerance policies on casters violating humans. The self policing pattern has worked for many other professions and industries. You may also get people to avoid vigilantism if you warn them about the dangers of death curses and make reporting people easy, though I'd expect a lot of false positives.

Wizard: We have a 0 tolerance policy. If a wizard does something bad we'll chop their head off.
Reporter: Okay there's an illusionist giving people one dollar bills that look like hundreds. When does this menace lose his/her head.
Wizard: Erm... not actually a law violation. It really isn't even close. But if there is a wizard using their power to kill, head comes off.
Reporter: Okay there is a wizard shooting people, getting anywhere with the Nevernever, and clearing their presence with magic. When do you get them.
Wizard: We'll they technically aren't killing with magic.
Reporter: So there's this guy called Binder. He summons bunches of monsters and has them eat people. When does his head come off.
Wizard: Erm... actually he's careful to avoid the first law.
Reporter: ... Okay there's a necromancer. He's summoned an army of zombie dino's and most of Chicago is overrun.
Wizard: Still not our department.
Reporter: Alright then. Where going back to vigilantism. You do realize you're in a roundabout right?

[AstronaughtAndy]

In an alternate-DF setting where magic is publicly known, you may need the White Council to behave a bit more like the Ministry of Magic (from that other series about a wizard named Harry). I'm pretty sure they have some departments that exist specifically to prevent the abuse of magic in the ways that are being brought up. (Granted, they also have a few departments that break the laws of magic in their daily operations, but eh.)