Running with the devil

[YPU]

One of my players had the idea to play a vigilante who has made a deal with a demon to boost his luck. Tough I could see this being a one dimensional character I know the player is better then that.

In any case I thought that doing a simple switch with the true believer powers would do but upon re reading them I have to say I find this less perfect then I aspect. Partially because I am not sure if conviction is really the right skill to use for a devil blessed man.

Mainly what I want the player be able to do is create prayers alla true believer, the player clearly stated he would like to make these self focused, a egocentric prayer is not a good one after all, but it could be twisted for good no doubt.

Anyhow I like the idea and I feel I have a solid start however I find it hard to say exactly what power this player should have.
On another note, I considered that perhaps it would be best to make this a changeling type of deal, it seems like down-below would always be willing to grant power in return for a piece of your soul (fate refresh) Naturally the power would work fine if they end up causing some mayhem, not so much if they would interupt something down=below has its hands in (fallen, for instance)

Any suggestions on how best to write this one up?

[admiralducksauce]

One of my players had the idea to play a vigilante who has made a deal with a demon to boost his luck.

Just use the sponsor debt mechanics from sponsored magic. The character doesn't get any sort of magic or anything from it (and so it should cost far less), but you keep the idea of being able to ask the Dark Powers for fate points (ie, luck) when you need them in exchange for debt to be repaid later.

[Richard_Chilton]

You might want to set a time limited on the deal.  Traditionally those types of deals have 7 years or 1 year - after which the devil takes his due.

Or have a "If X happens then payment is due" clause - with X being something that is almost certainly not going to happen, but suddenly it's almost happening all the time.  For example, he gains all sorts of social powers but if he sleeps with his sister (including half sisters) the payment is due.  He signs off (in his background) knowing that even if he ever wanted to his sister wouldn't be up for something like that.  Later he discovers that he is adopted - and has no idea if he has a half sister (or sisters) or who she might be.

Which leads to the other part of the deal - the exit clause.  One tradition holds that there's always an exit clause (but it's usually something that's practically impossible) while other stories hold that if return all the benefits then you can get out of the deal (which usually leaves you penniless and starving - but at least you own your own soul).  Other stories have involved turning to the guy upstairs - on the theory that He was promised your soul at baptism and if you repent it goes back to him.


I can see a character type similar to a changeling - call it the "Granted Power" or "Borrowing Power" Template.  The character has X powers because of the deal but can (under the right circumstances) renounce those powers (regaining his spent refresh).  It could be fun to play a "doomed if I can't escape the deal, powerless if I do" type character...

But I'm not sure if I'd want to play him after the choice.

Richard

[YPU]

Just use the sponsor debt mechanics from sponsored magic. The character doesn't get any sort of magic or anything from it (and so it should cost far less), but you keep the idea of being able to ask the Dark Powers for fate points (ie, luck) when you need them in exchange for debt to be repaid later.

Sounds like that would work, it really works for the idea of getting a little subtle boost with a very . I would still like incorporate the prayer mechanism, the idea of placing a aspect on the campaign itself I really like. Perhaps the borrowed point and selfish prayer ability as a -2 power? Any suggestions on this.

Richard, I like the idea's you bring up. However the player was looking more for a subtle little extra rather then a big power, at least to start with. Actual sponsored magic he thought of as possible in the future but not yet. Naturally I might throw him in a situation where that strength or toughness ability starts to look tempting. Anyhow I feel the prayer mechanic and borrowed fate points are too vague effects to work with your suggestions. But I do like them, so I will take a look at incorporating them. Perhaps lay down the words of his contract together during character creation.

I think my player is aware his character is in a downward spiral and probably going to crash before he can escape it. I think he likes the tragic hero.

[Tedronai]

Sounds like that would work, it really works for the idea of getting a little subtle boost with a very . I would still like incorporate the prayer mechanism, the idea of placing a aspect on the campaign itself I really like. Perhaps the borrowed point and selfish prayer ability as a -2 power? Any suggestions on this.

I would call that, at most, a -0 power.

[Becq]

Don't know if this really is what you're looking for, but I'll throw it out anyway.

First we start with the sponsor debt mechanics (ie, what admiralducksauce suggested).  This gives you a solid core for asking for little bits of help -- for a price.

But take it a step further.  Allow the character to make extensive use of the "Temporary Powers" sidebar on YS92, but using debt rather than Fate points.  Work with the player to make a list of powers that are appropriate to borrow from a demon.  This should certainly include the physical powers (Strength/Toughness/etc), and might well include a number of others (Cloak of Darkness, Hellfire, and more).  Basically, for a future favor (or favors), the character can access -- for a scene -- as many of these powers as he's willing to pay the price for.

And I'd consider adding just one more small caveat, if you think the player would be cool with it.  Pick a reasonable number in advance (perhaps trouble comes in threes?).  Once the character has "borrowed" a particular power that many times, it sticks.  He adds it to his character sheet permanently, reducing refresh and losing Fate points as though he'd just bought the power.  He's just lost a piece of his soul, and become a little more like the demon he's dealt with.

In effect, the result would be a somewhat Changeling-esque character, who struggles between the power on the offer and the desire to retain his soul.  Of course, if his refresh reaches zero, the Choice is made.

[UmbraLux]

One thing I'd be tempted to add to Becq's list - have him take on visible demonic traits as he takes on powers.  Just as temporary, but scaly skin to go with that toughness or vertically slit pupils with cloak of darkness would be fun.

I think I'd make taking the powers permanently optional though.  Unless you only plan a sort campaign at least.  Else the character's concept and possibly playability change quickly and fairly drastically.

[ImpishMortal]

These are pretty cool ideas. :-)

YPU, were you thinking that the effects of this ability should last one scene or longer?

[InFerrumVeritas]

Why not just use demonic co-pilot?

[admiralducksauce]

Why not just use demonic co-pilot?

I don't know about any of you guys, but I wouldn't wish that shitty power on my worst enemy. You get a +1 to actions that are aligned with your copilot, after which you stand a very good chance of taking mental stress and eventually taking yourself out? I honestly can't think of any situation where Demonic Co-Pilot is better than the Sponsor mechanics.

[ImpishMortal]

I don't know about any of you guys, but I wouldn't wish that shitty power on my worst enemy. You get a +1 to actions that are aligned with your copilot, after which you stand a very good chance of taking mental stress and eventually taking yourself out? I honestly can't think of any situation where Demonic Co-Pilot is better than the Sponsor mechanics.

[admiralducksauce]

If I could elaborate a little further: on paper, Demonic Co-Pilot sounds like it should be perfect for this sort of thing, at least the title certainly does. There are just other (IMO any) mechanics better suited to what Demonic Co-Pilot proports to accomplish. I'd like it better if it was just the Sponsorship mechanics granting FP and Debt according to an agenda (I also think the sponsorship mechanics are elegant and clever to a fault, so I'll admit my opinion is clouded).

[Silverblaze]

If I could elaborate a little further: on paper, Demonic Co-Pilot sounds like it should be perfect for this sort of thing, at least the title certainly does. There are just other (IMO any) mechanics better suited to what Demonic Co-Pilot proports to accomplish. I'd like it better if it was just the Sponsorship mechanics granting FP and Debt according to an agenda (I also think the sponsorship mechanics are elegant and clever to a fault, so I'll admit my opinion is clouded).

I may need to reread it, but it doesn't sound that bad assuming you can end encounters quickly.  Similar to hunder stress no?

[Sanctaphrax]

I don't like Demonic Co-Pilot either. Not because it's underpowered, but because it involves oodles of pointless rolling.

Seriously, it's a pain in the neck.

Also, it punishes high rolls.

Also, it can actually be overpowered in some situations. It's very useful on non-conflict Powers, because mental stress seriously does not matter most of the time. Its power depends on the co-pilot's agenda, which is completely undefined rules-wise. Especially since that agenda dictates the consequences of being taken out.

[Mr. Death]

Well, the intent behind Demonic Co-Pilot is less to create a perfectly balanced addition to the system and more to emulate the advantages and drawbacks of things like the Hexenwulf belts. And sure, mental stress doesn't make a difference most of the time. Neither does physical stress. It's supposed to punish high rolls, because in this context, a "high roll" means, basically, that you're leaning more and more on the demon's influence, and it's therefore gaining control.

Hell, the sidebar next to the power outright says so. "Why would anyone take this?" "Hey, it's part of the belts, so it's in the game."