Quick Question on Foci

[keeperoflenneth]

A player in a DFRPG game is a fireball spec wizard. She has a fireball rote with a focus specifically for the rote, at a claimed +8. This seems odd to me in light of the literal rules from the book (YS).

Information from the book:

Focus item slots cannot exceed your lore.
the tricky part:
When you specialize something, the slot gains a +1 bonus.

The wizard has a lore of 4. Our issue is, Some players feel that the focus should be as follows

Fireball Rote Focus [ +5 ]
 +1 (slot 1) +1 (specialized)
 +1 (slot 2)
 +1 (slot 3)
 +1 (slot 4)

because of the specifics of the specialization, the focus for the single spell, as per the book says, you get a "single slot upgrade" of a bonus of +1.

She feels the focus should be totaled as follows.
Fireball Rote Focus [ +8 ]
 + 4 (slot 1) +4, one for each point spent.

The issue is, the book gives an example of a single +1, and when it refers to the bonus for specialization, it uses +1 again, so she feels this rule should be interpreted as doubling the bonus. some of us disagree, and read the book literal to say a single slot gaining a +1. Meaning with a lore of 4, the maximum possible bonus should be 5, not 8.

[GryMor]

A specialized foci gets an additional +1 above and beyond the total bonus purchased with foci slot(s). Specialized foci kind of suck in the vast majority of situations, among them being cases where you invest more than one slot.

[keeperoflenneth]

Thanks for the input, anyone else have any opinions on this? I would like to get as many folks views as possible since so much of these books are left to interpretation.

[Rougarou]

GryMor is right. It's a +5 bonus provided that four focus item slots are devoted to it and her Lore is at least Great.

[keeperoflenneth]

Cool, thanks for the responses guys. So is there any possible way (just out of fairness to the player playing the wizard in this) that you would conceivably end up doubling the bonus? Even if it's not what i described here.

[UmbraLux]

Cool, thanks for the responses guys. So is there any possible way (just out of fairness to the player playing the wizard in this) that you would conceivably end up doubling the bonus? Even if it's not what i described here.

A fire specialization is another +1 (potentially more if you have several Refinements).  A declaration can be made and immediately tagged for +2.  Those three will get you to +8 with your focus.  Beyond that you're talking about maneuvers or spending fate points for additional increases.

Here's a fairly detailed analysis of magic in DFRPG.
 - Mystic Theory 101: Magic in DFRPG, Part One
 - Evocation, or How to Blow Stuff Up: Magic in DFRPG, Part Two
 - Thaumaturgy, or How to Break the Rules: Magic in DFRPG, Part Three
 - Getting Ready, or A Thaumaturgic Preperation Cheat Sheet: Magic in DFRPG, Part Four
 - How to Build Spells, or A Practical Grimoire: Magic in DFRPG, Part Five
 - Math and Miscellany: Magic in DFRPG, Part Six

[Rougarou]

Cool, thanks for the responses guys. So is there any possible way (just out of fairness to the player playing the wizard in this) that you would conceivably end up doubling the bonus? Even if it's not what i described here.

No, the rules are pretty clear on this, and with good reason. The only exception to the rule that she cannot have a +X value on a focus item, where X is a value greater than her Lore skill, is if she uses it for one spell and one spell only and then it's only a one time +1 bonus for a maximum possible total of +Y, where Y equals her Lore skill plus one. The only way she could possibly get a higher bonus is to raise her Lore skill and purchase more slots with the refinement ability.

+8 is a ridiculously high bonus for a focus item, so much so that it's almost gamebreaking. A character with Mediocre Discipline and Great Conviction could summon 8 shifts of power, take four mental stress, automatically control the 8 shifts if it's part of a rote, and roll discipline to get an aiming roll that will usually be Epic or above. If she get's a zero on the roll, and keep in mind that I'm talking about someone with a Discipline score of ZERO, her target would have to make a roll of 9 (Legendary+1) to dodge the attack. If they rolled a fair, they would take fourteen shifts of damage, which is a minimum of a severe and a moderate consequence for someone with no toughness powers, armor, or extra consequences. That's too much stress being thrown around on one turn without some fate points being handed over by the player or some major setup from teammates creating aspects to tag.

[keeperoflenneth]

Yea, that was my position on it as well, thats what i read from the rules, but its only fair to give the benefit of the doubt given that "a previous gm" ran an entire season of sessions this way. So i at the least understand her attachment to it. Thanks a load to all the responses! I think I have my case now :3

[Mr. Death]

Also, keep in mind that the more item slots something takes up, the bigger it has to be--your average staff tops out at around 6 slots, according to YS. So something with 8 slots would be huge and cumbersome at best.

[Orladdin]

Also, keep in mind that the more item slots something takes up, the bigger it has to be--your average staff tops out at around 6 slots, according to YS. So something with 8 slots would be huge and cumbersome at best.

Yep, so a +8 Fireball Foci would likely look like (or at least be the size of) a literal military artillery gun.

[Radecliffe]

Not quite THAT bad I would say but something about the size of a 6 ft. tall totem pole would not be out of order I would think.   

[Orladdin]

Not quite THAT bad I would say but something about the size of a 6 ft. tall totem pole would not be out of order I would think.   

Ok, so you've got this carved tree-trunk that you need to focus your evocation.  Now, how to get it across town...?  I know!  Put wheels on it!
Annnnd, voila: Arcane Artillery Gun.

[Mr. Death]

In any case, as Harry put it in the margins, it's not like you can carry Little Chicago around with you.

[Orladdin]

In any case, as Harry put it in the margins, it's not like you can carry Little Chicago around with you.

Exactly my point-- not without a flatbed truck or a trailer hitch, at any rate.