Practical Application of (a specific) Death Curse

[sinker]

Alright then, lets do the math. I'm assuming a great conviction, if it's different you can adjust. So, four shifts to start (and only four shifts unless she's got blank stress boxes, otherwise things can get a bit murky) plus tags on two mild consequences for four more, plus eighteen for inflicting more consequences, and six more for tagging them.

 I'd think it wouldn't be too hard to take someone out and change their aspects with thirty-two shifts of power.

Also any fate points she has can invoke her aspects (I imagine she has at least a couple related to spellcasting) or barring that just give a flat +1.

[Radecliffe]

Alright then, lets do the math. I'm assuming a great conviction, if it's different you can adjust. So, four shifts to start (and only four shifts unless she's got blank stress boxes, otherwise things can get a bit murky) plus tags on two mild consequences for four more, plus eighteen for inflicting more consequences, and six more for tagging them.

 I'd think it wouldn't be too hard to take someone out and change their aspects with thirty-two shifts of power.

Also any fate points she has can invoke her aspects (I imagine she has at least a couple related to spellcasting) or barring that just give a flat +1.

There's a reason it is dangerous to kill a wizard!   

[Orladdin]

A Concession is explicitly a special form of being Taken Out.

Right-- but it's one where you decide the outcome.  If you get taken out without a concession, you don't get a say in how it happens; your attacker does.  I.e: No death curse.

[Mr. Death]

Right-- but it's one where you decide the outcome.  If you get taken out without a concession, you don't get a say in how it happens; your attacker does.  I.e: No death curse.

Not necessarily. I've had more than one opportunity to throw a death curse at someone because the player killed his opponent in a non-instant manner. A gunshot through the chest is as lethal as one to the head, but still gives a chance for a Death Curse.

[Lamech]

Right-- but it's one where you decide the outcome.  If you get taken out without a concession, you don't get a say in how it happens; your attacker does.  I.e: No death curse.

Nope. Reread pg 203. You'll still get a death curse.

Oh and the power of a death curse is: Lore+8(tags on consequences)+20(sacrificing a life)+unused consequences+fate points to invoke (don't forget the cash out bonus!)+2 per extra consequence. Pro-tip: Avoid these at all cost. Even if you kill a focused practitioner on her last legs you're probably eating 30 shifts of power. If the victim started healthy or has spare fate points more. God help you if you hit them hard enough to kill them when they had consequences left.

[Mr. Death]

As we mentioned before, the +20 is from inflicting all the consequences. If they're already inflicted, their shifts can't be counted toward the spell.

[Orladdin]

Not necessarily. I've had more than one opportunity to throw a death curse at someone because the player killed his opponent in a non-instant manner. A gunshot through the chest is as lethal as one to the head, but still gives a chance for a Death Curse.

Well, that's not how I would handle it-- by rules on take-outs, unless the player doing the taking-out wanted to allow your death curse, they can narrate that they killed you too soon for you to utter it. 
The dying-slowly-enough circumstance arises from the practitioner conceding, allowing him/her to narrate that it is so.

Nope. Reread pg 203. You'll still get a death curse.

I'll reread it tonight, but I'm fairly certain you're mistaken.

[Mr. Death]

Well, that's not how I would handle it-- by rules on take-outs, unless the player doing the taking-out wanted to allow your death curse, they can narrate that they killed you too soon for you to utter it. 
The dying-slowly-enough circumstance arises from the practitioner conceding, allowing him/her to narrate that it is so.

I'll reread it tonight, but I'm fairly certain you're mistaken.

You're forgetting half of the Taken Out rule. Yes, the attacker decides what happens. But the victim decides exactly how. That's explicit in the RAW. The page referred to highlights this and is a conversation amounting to, "So does that mean wizards always get their death curse?" "More or less, yeah."

[Orladdin]

You're forgetting half of the Taken Out rule. Yes, the attacker decides what happens. But the victim decides exactly how. That's explicit in the RAW. The page referred to highlights this and is a conversation amounting to, "So does that mean wizards always get their death curse?" "More or less, yeah."

Ah, you're right!  I remember that passage, now.

Damn, that's ridiculous!  It didn't strike me just how ridiculous before, when Dresden was the only FATE game I knew.  I haven't read the rules stright through since I grabbed a bunch of the other ones.

[Lamech]

As we mentioned before, the +20 is from inflicting all the consequences. If they're already inflicted, their shifts can't be counted toward the spell.

You're killing a mortal to power the spell. Instant +20 complexity. That's in addition to the +20 you can sneetch for consequences. If you decide to death curse when your still healthy for whatever reason, its 20(life)+20(consequences)+8(tags)+4 to 8(fate points)+lore+extra stuff. 52 minimum. Who ever gets hit by that better have plot device written all over them. Or a bucket load of fate points.

[Radecliffe]

You're killing a mortal to power the spell. Instant +20 complexity. That's in addition to the +20 you can sneetch for consequences. If you decide to death curse when your still healthy for whatever reason, its 20(life)+20(consequences)+8(tags)+4 to 8(fate points)+lore+extra stuff. 52 minimum. Who ever gets hit by that better have plot device written all over them. Or a bucket load of fate points.

Death curses have specific rules and there is nothing about yourself being a sacrifice at least in the way you are indicating.  It does not work that way per the RAW. 

[Tedronai]

I'm rather certain that Lamech's interpretation is incorrect.
Not only do I believe that you do not get the straight +20 for your death, but I'm also convinced that you do not get the tag on Consequences that you are inflicting as part of the DC, as opposed to those that assumedly contributed to your decision to use it.

[Mr. Death]

You're killing a mortal to power the spell. Instant +20 complexity. That's in addition to the +20 you can sneetch for consequences. If you decide to death curse when your still healthy for whatever reason, its 20(life)+20(consequences)+8(tags)+4 to 8(fate points)+lore+extra stuff. 52 minimum. Who ever gets hit by that better have plot device written all over them. Or a bucket load of fate points.

Read the section on why a sacrifice of a mortal counts for +20 complexity again. It's not an arbitrary number, it's directly the result of all the consequences your average mortal can have. You don't get to double up on that.

[UmbraLux]

Tedronai has it.  Power sources for a death curse should look something like this:

• shifts equal to all consequences (of any type) not previously taken
• one free tag per consequence - (two shifts per tag)
• fate points spent invoking relevant aspects (it would be unusual not to be able to spend them all) - (two shifts per invoke)
• declaration(s*) - (two shifts per successful declaration)
• lore

*While I tend to house rule soft limits on declarations I don't believe there are any limits other than imagination in the book.

Here's an old example - but it is the only death curse used in my game so far. 

Thaumaturgy - Johan's Curse

22 Shifts of Power:

• 4 from Lore 4
• 2 from declaration In Johan's Grasp
  
• 2 from declaration Bleeding On Johan
  
• 6 from taking a severe consequence (the only one she had left)
• 8 from tagging each consequence*

The effect was split into a maneuver (Go to Hell!) with 13 shifts** and 9 shifts of duration.

* Free consequence tags only apply to death curses.
** Thaumaturgy avoids / negates defense rolls simply by assigning enough power to overcome any potential roll.  The 13 shifts here break down into 4 shifts to create a sticky aspect, five shifts to match any 'superb' skill, and 4 shifts to match a maximum roll.

For the next "few years" Johan will have to deal with the Sent to Hell aspect.  Should be interesting for a Worldwalker...   

[Mr. Death]

shifts equal to all consequences (of any type) not previously taken

I'm not sure if extra social consequences should count (from stunts or Presence ratings of 5 or above). They don't provide power for any other type of magic, and I find it hard to see how they could apply here.