Fanfiction: Is It Real Writing?

[Zuriel]

My rational opinion, fwiw, is that fanfic can be a good way of learning some writing-associated skills in a context where others are provided for you (pre-existing worlds and characters and so on) but that sticking with it long term is holding yourself back from developing other skills (such as original worldbuilding).  And that there are no ethical issues with fanfic of a) authors who have given permission, b) authors who are dead, and c) widely shared universes (such as DC Comics), but otherwise it can feel like theft.

(I have an irrational opinion too, which is that if anyone ever fanfics anything of mine I will come after them with harmful intent and a sharpened teaspoon.)

If a writer has no further ambition, it doesn't mean they aren't improving if they stick to fanfic...but I would think most progress to their own creations as they learn, gather knowledge and information to form their own characters and worlds as a challenge to themselves.

And the keyword is permission.  Most fanfic writers abide by the wishes of the original creators, if they are ethical at all, and don't infringe on those who don't want anyone to mess with their works.

And the majority of fanfic is harmless, intent on adding further enjoyment to an already-established creation.  And it can be worldbuilding, especially in UF, since you can add traveling to new dimensions of your own design, which leads to original characters and settings within that dimension.  I especially like adding these aspects to my writing as I've always found other worlds a fountain of possibilities, though I tend not to include a lot of science fiction elements, which just, personally, don't appeal to me all that much...preferring a good mix of just about everything else.  I guess I'm a little tired of flying saucers and robotic creatures  (I'm over Star Trek and the like) and gravitate toward the magical and mystical sides of the universe as they interact and influence the real world.  For now.   

[Shecky]

It comes down to this: is the fanfic-writing the person's hobby or is it a step in a greater dream? If it's a hobby, we have no place criticizing them for doing it. To tell the truth, we have no place criticizing them even if it IS supposed to be a stepping-stone; people have their own paths to follow, and not everyone is supposed to share the same path.

[Snowleopard]

Thanks to everyone who responded!

And I think as writers, we all pretty much agree on the same things, which I suspected would be the case.  I just wanted to have a weightier comeback for my relative on the subject.  I don't think she realizes she does the same thing when she paints.  Most of the time she has to have an image or photo to copy, maybe adding a few of her own original touches, but ultimately she's no different.  Sounds like visual fanfic to me.     I need to point that out... 

I don't mind fanfic as long as it stays within canon limits and doesn't wander off into unrecognizable territory.  And for me it was great practice to see if I could give the established, iconic characters the same voice in my stories as they're known for.  I got that down pretty good and then worked on my own original characters.  Both are fun to do in their own ways.

Since I'm relatively new to this writing thing, I still have a lot to learn, but at least I can look back at what I did months ago and see a big improvement.  And practice, practice, practice will only make it better.

I started with fanfic then moved into trying scripts (very different than prose) and also 'filing off the serial numbers' as they say and turning my fanfic prose into something original.  Great practice and fun.

[LDWriter2]

I haven't read all the other posts but in my opinion I would say yes it can be. I know from personal experience that writing using other people's characters or universe, can be just as hard as using your own. But at the same time how many fanfic writers try to get better or work at making their stories the best? I know some do. In fact some pros writers started in fanfic. But other fanfic writers just write what they have in mind. They either don't care or don't know about the rules-guidelines-better techniques of writing. So I'm not sure what they do is real writing.

Much fanfic is illegal even though some published writers don't care if you write in their universes while others do. 

I would love to write in Butcher's Dresden universe, without his characters though. Come to think of it, that could be harder writing because you have to keep in mind his rules and any "canon" he wouldn't want changed.

[Aminar]

Is it writing?  Yes.
Should it be marketable?  No.(But it has been.)
I mean, at some point I plan on writing a crossover between my conventions mascots, Alien, Predator, and Avatar.  Because it would be hilarious.  I wrote a really good Name of the Wind mock-fanfiction and run a panel where I read bad fanfics to people.  That said, I would never call it professional writing(professional being defined as something I would put in a writing resume style thing.)   

[KevinEvans]

Well from my crass commercial viewpoint, how much are you getting paid for it? Grin.

My wife and I write in a shared universe, but we are paid pro rates, that is SFWA qualifying rates in a qualified market.

I think it all comes down to the quality of the work, if you are wondering about a story, file the serial numbers off (make it not conflict with the owned, and copyrighted plot or protagonists) and submit it.

There are lots of markets out there and they buy stuff on surprisingly regular basis.

Regards,
Kevin

[LDWriter2]

Well from my crass commercial viewpoint, how much are you getting paid for it? Grin.

My wife and I write in a shared universe, but we are paid pro rates, that is SFWA qualifying rates in a qualified market.

I think it all comes down to the quality of the work, if you are wondering about a story, file the serial numbers off (make it not conflict with the owned, and copyrighted plot or protagonists) and submit it.

There are lots of markets out there and they buy stuff on surprisingly regular basis.

Regards,
Kevin

I was going to say something similar to Kevin's comments...except the shared universe with his wife. But I had a Fanfiic story published legally. Sometimes someone will allow it. Star Trek did it, Dr. Who did it, I think a couple of games have, David Weber has but you had to be specifically invited in his case. I wish Butcher would. I understand why he doesn't but I still wish he would work something out.

[Quantus]

I was going to say something similar to Kevin's comments...except the shared universe with his wife. But I had a Fanfiic story published legally. Sometimes someone will allow it. Star Trek did it, Dr. Who did it, I think a couple of games have, David Weber has but you had to be specifically invited in his case. I wish Butcher would. I understand why he doesn't but I still wish he would work something out.

Me too.  I understand completely not wanting to let other people futz around with your creation, but from a purely Fan point of view, I just want more from my favorite worlds; it would be nice if Alera were to open up to other Authors to tell stories in, since JB says he doesn't expect to return to it any time soon.  That is certainly a world big enough to tell multiple sotries.

[trboturtle]

Speaking as someone who started with Fanfiction, it's a way to get a handle on the writing without having to worldbuild your own universe. I prefer to stick as close as I could to the source, but there are plenty of AUs out there, some are okay, others are "Why bother? Just change the names and it's an original story!"

Started with anime, moved into Battletech fanfiction, then into writing Battletech and getting paid for it. I've learn alot about writing during this time and I building my own original world in an Urban fantasy setting and have two half-written novels and a short story done. But it was fanfiction where I started, and if I find something in fanfiction worth reading, I will read it.

There's one website that has managed to take bits of many anime, scifi, and comics and creating its own universe. I mean where else can you read about Utena Tenjo fight a Bajorian Jedi knight in a rose duel, cheered on by a teenage Bobo Fett and The Teeen Titians' Koriand'r.....

Craig

[the neurovore of Zur-En-Aargh]

Me too.  I understand completely not wanting to let other people futz around with your creation, but from a purely Fan point of view, I just want more from my favorite worlds;

Hmm.  Interesting reaction, because when I really enjoy a world and think it's done well, I tend not to want more in it by anyone other than the original writer; because the better and more complex a fictional world is, the less likely any other writer is to Get It well enough for their attempts to follow through not to disappoint.  (I base this on a number of tribute anthologies to things like Sandman and Elric and the War of the Worlds, each of which, that I recall, had one or two good stories among an avalanche of unsatisfying ones.)

I suppose that could be an argument for good writers fanficcing unsatisfying universes to make them better, but I think I'd rather have original stuff from the good writers in question.

[Quantus]

Hmm.  Interesting reaction, because when I really enjoy a world and think it's done well, I tend not to want more in it by anyone other than the original writer; because the better and more complex a fictional world is, the less likely any other writer is to Get It well enough for their attempts to follow through not to disappoint.  (I base this on a number of tribute anthologies to things like Sandman and Elric and the War of the Worlds, each of which, that I recall, had one or two good stories among an avalanche of unsatisfying ones.)

I suppose that could be an argument for good writers fanficcing unsatisfying universes to make them better, but I think I'd rather have original stuff from the good writers in question.

Fair enough, I suppose I was assuming that the new material would remain faithful and/or up to par.  This would be easier to do with an invitational type of situation, as opposed to a tribute situation where the Original Author has little or no input.  If, for example, one of Jim's Beta-Foo were to do an Alera spin-off, Id forsee them having a good perspective on the material from their involvement in the original publishing, as well as enough open communication with the Author that they could conceivably do it fair justice.

Along a Similar vein, I thought the Idea of Brandon Sanderson taking over the WOT could have been a trainwreck, but he has guidance from Jordan's editor/wife, and his additions to the series are at least as good as the originals.  Granted that is swinging pretty wide of what Id call "Fan-fiction"

[Shecky]

If, for example, one of Jim's Beta-Foo were to do an Alera spin-off, Id forsee them having a good perspective on the material from their involvement in the original publishing, as well as enough open communication with the Author that they could conceivably do it fair justice.

Are you insane? If one of us got hold of it, what resulted would likely be the story of Tavi and Kitai's second son, Gluteus Snarkius.

[Quantus]

Are you insane? If one of us got hold of it, what resulted would likely be the story of Tavi and Kitai's second son, Gluteus Snarkius.

...I'd read it

 

[LDWriter2]

Fair enough, I suppose I was assuming that the new material would remain faithful and/or up to par.  This would be easier to do with an invitational type of situation, as opposed to a tribute situation where the Original Author has little or no input.  If, for example, one of Jim's Beta-Foo were to do an Alera spin-off, Id forsee them having a good perspective on the material from their involvement in the original publishing, as well as enough open communication with the Author that they could conceivably do it fair justice.

Along a Similar vein, I thought the Idea of Brandon Sanderson taking over the WOT could have been a trainwreck, but he has guidance from Jordan's editor/wife, and his additions to the series are at least as good as the originals.  Granted that is swinging pretty wide of what Id call "Fan-fiction"

If you are doing fanfic online than you can pretty much do what you want. But if you do it with the permission of the copyright owner they can control what you put in. Star Trek-universal-was strict about canon and what made up canon, and I assume David Weber is also. Of course if you opened it up too wide you would need readers to watch for any uncanon scenes or anything new that took the storyline in a direction the creator doesn't want since they wouldn't have time to read all the stories. Star Trek being its own special case. And they did have an editor watching for that.

[Zuriel]

Hmm.  Interesting reaction, because when I really enjoy a world and think it's done well, I tend not to want more in it by anyone other than the original writer; because the better and more complex a fictional world is, the less likely any other writer is to Get It well enough for their attempts to follow through not to disappoint.  (I base this on a number of tribute anthologies to things like Sandman and Elric and the War of the Worlds, each of which, that I recall, had one or two good stories among an avalanche of unsatisfying ones.)

I suppose that could be an argument for good writers fanficcing unsatisfying universes to make them better, but I think I'd rather have original stuff from the good writers in question.

I disagree that fans do not "get it" well enough to write a fanfic if its too complex.  Many of them are obsessive students of the story and thereby know it backwards and forwards.  Sometimes the creator purposefully leaves an event/situation or character and/or his behavior open-ended for further contemplation (especially, but not exclusive, to episodic TV), plus fans desire to extrapolate on what could have happened before, in between or after x, y or z.  All the answers are not there.  And I have yet to find many stories that completely satisfied me - and I'm surely not the only one who feels this way - not to mention the others who just like the challenge of creating an addition, like filling in the blanks, to a story they really enjoyed, not necessarily to make it better, per se.  Good writers are not immune to making bad choices, usually messing up a good thing when their egos begin to inflate and they believe everything they write is golden.  Oh, contraire.   

Fanfic, to me, is quite the compliment to a writer, that the author's story is so well thought of that people want more.  It doesn't mean the fanfic writer didn't like the story and wrote his own story to subvert the original.  Quite the opposite in most cases.

I have run into a few people who don't read fanfic because they don't want to get "confused" over what's canon and what is not...which seems rather bizaare to me, as these people are very well-versed in the stories, and I would think they are highly aware of what actually took place in the original work.  It's their perogative, but a rather flimsy excuse.