Author Topic: Reference: X compared to Y = possible Discrepancy?  (Read 67700 times)

Offline Serack

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Re: Exploritory Reference: X compared to Y = possible Discrepancy?
« Reply #45 on: June 27, 2012, 07:07:40 PM »
Just because in normal use Red could mean Stop or it could mean Hot does not mean that the different usages are disparate.

Same with Harry's usage of what white symbolizes.  Especially since he already seemed to equate which color was cheaper at wal-mart to be equally significant.
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Offline Mr. Death

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Re: Exploritory Reference: X compared to Y = possible Discrepancy?
« Reply #46 on: June 27, 2012, 07:13:43 PM »
Also, remember the other reason Harry said he was using blue in PG: It was the cheapest color at WalMart.
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Offline Serack

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Re: Exploritory Reference: X compared to Y = possible Discrepancy?
« Reply #47 on: July 02, 2012, 06:59:04 PM »
I just remembered something.  I think in Storm Front (maybe it was a different early book) Harry said he started manifesting his powers and was adopted by Justin at the age of 10, but in the later books it was stated to be about when he was 12 or 13.  I'll have to fill in with book references later, but I wanted to pen it down while it's on my mind.
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Offline Ziggelly

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Re: Exploritory Reference: X compared to Y = possible Discrepancy?
« Reply #48 on: July 02, 2012, 10:01:06 PM »
I already said that on page 2-ish. :P

Offline Serack

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Re: Exploritory Reference: X compared to Y = possible Discrepancy?
« Reply #49 on: July 02, 2012, 11:14:45 PM »
I already said that on page 2-ish. :P

bah.

Did you just add all those quotes? 

Could you add Ch 7 to the SK quote, ch 30 to the first GS quote, and ch 20 to the last GS quote?

Oh, and your post has been linked to in the OP now :)
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Offline Serack

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Re: Exploritory Reference: X compared to Y = possible Discrepancy?
« Reply #50 on: July 02, 2012, 11:25:29 PM »
Molly Aged more than can be accounted for between books 8 and 9 (Proven Guilty and White Night)

Per the "Timeline Chick"
We haven't quite pinned down specifically what years these events take place, so let's say "Storm Front" and "Fool Moon" take place in the year 0, and every thing else is either BSF (Before Storm Front) or ASF (After Storm Front). 

[/snip]

12 BSF: Molly Carpenter is born, according to WN and beyond.  She's suddenly a year too old in WN, and the change is kept consistent for the subsequent stories.

(11 BSF: Molly Carpenter is born, according to DM and PG.  She's suddenly a year too old in WN, and the change is kept consistent for the subsequent stories.)

Here are the relevant book quotes:
Quote from: PG ch. 7
"You're sixteen"
"Seventeen," she said, with sparks of indignation and another thick "s."
"Whatever," I said.  "You're a juvenile.  You should call your parents."

Quote from: WN ch. 30
I stripped the glove off and held it up, in my fingers spread.  It didn't look as horrific as it used to, but it was plenty ugly enough to make an impression on a nineteen-year-old girl.  "This isn't a goddamn movie, Molly.

Molly's age can be explained by the fact that some of the early books got published in a different order than written.  Priscellie covered this at one time IIRC.

With that note, I'll put in a Doylist explanation of that "Discrepancy."

According to the following WoJ, the order for DB and PG got switched from their planned sequence.  Since the discrepancy circles around how much time passed between PG and WN with respect to Molly's age, it can be assumed that for the overall plot, Molly was supposed to be Harry's apprentice for a few years WN.

Quote
You planned out the 20 books and apocalyptic trilogy for the books and how much have you changed now that you have gotten into it?
Not a lot.  I changed around the events of Proven Guilty and Dead Beat because Proven Guilty, the part with Molly was originally going to come first and I told my editor, "This one is going to be a little quieter, a little bit more personal than the one before, it's going to be focusing a little bit more on just a couple of people and stuff that's important to Harry." and my editor says, "well, you know, that might not be a good idea for this one." And I'm like "What?"  "You might want to have a story that's a little bit bigger"  "What?"  "You might want to have a story that's a little bit broader and thicker.  Something that people can really get their teeth into.  Something that's going to be a little heavier and have more weight."  I'm like "Wait a minute are you saying I'm going into hard cover?"  She's like "That's not what I'm saying... I didn't say that!"  Cause it was a surprise for me I suppose.  So then I said, "Ok we've gotta go with zombies and ghosts and animated T-Rex for that one then."

Edit:  I'll note here that when Priscellie confronted Jim about this at a signing, he recruited her to be a Beta.  Something similar happened to Terri Bane when she punched Jim's shoulder at an interview for letting Harry not check up on Mouse's shoulder after the dust settled during White Night.
« Last Edit: April 19, 2016, 01:15:28 PM by Serack »
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Offline knnn

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Re: Exploritory Reference: X compared to Y = possible Discrepancy?
« Reply #51 on: July 02, 2012, 11:44:47 PM »
Another possible discrepancy is that in Storm Front, Harry feels hopeless because someone got a piece of his hair, yet in Changes, Binder simply shaves his head and dips in the lake, removing all chances of Harry tracking him.

One can get around this by saying that in SF the spell was powered by a lightning storm so maybe that had the ability to target better?
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Offline Serack

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Re: Exploritory Reference: X compared to Y = possible Discrepancy?
« Reply #52 on: July 02, 2012, 11:53:27 PM »
Another possible discrepancy is that in Storm Front, Harry feels hopeless because someone got a piece of his hair, yet in Changes, Binder simply shaves his head and dips in the lake, removing all chances of Harry tracking him.

One can get around this by saying that in SF the spell was powered by a lightning storm so maybe that had the ability to target better?

Meh, the magical system was still getting fleshed out.    I always felt that mechanization for convincing Binder he had lost his tail was a rather unimpressive plot point for the reasons you just pointed out, as well as every other time old hair was used.  I would rather lump that with any other instances of the explanations of how the magic in the series has morphed minutely as the series progressed.
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Offline Eleyctra

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Re: Exploritory Reference: X compared to Y = possible Discrepancy?
« Reply #53 on: July 02, 2012, 11:56:31 PM »
Or he could say he learned a little more after Storm Front from Bob about the rules surrounding hair connections...you know, while writes down his case files after every book. ;)
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Offline Serack

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Re: Exploritory Reference: X compared to Y = possible Discrepancy?
« Reply #54 on: July 03, 2012, 12:04:19 AM »
Or he could say he learned a little more after Storm Front from Bob about the rules surrounding hair connections...you know, while writes down his case files after every book. ;)

This does a better job of following the spirit of this point in my OP than I was capable of while in the mindset of coming up with arguments

In the spirit of respect for Jim, and his fans, if you contribute to this reference, please try to do so in a manor that does just that, and that acknoledges that Jim has been able to do a great job of finding creative, cohesive ways to get such discrepancies to work quite well within the world he has created.

Thanks for doing such a great job of keeping our pontificating grounded.  ;D
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Offline Serack

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Re: Exploritory Reference: X compared to Y = possible Discrepancy?
« Reply #55 on: July 03, 2012, 12:08:28 AM »
Change in the details of Lasciel's Prison between when it was made in DM and a description of it in PG:

Quote from: DM ch. 33
"I dropped the coin into the hole. I slipped a steel ring about three inches across around it. I muttered to myself and willed
energy into the ring. The whispering abruptly cut off.
I dumped two buckets of cement into the hole and smoothed it until it was level with the rest of my floor. After that, I
hurried out of the lab and shut the door behind me."

Quote from: PG ch 6
Underneath it lay a foot and a half or so of concrete, and then another heavy metal box, wrapped with its own little circle of wards and spells.  Inside the box was a blackened silver coin.

It is possible that Harry dug up the coin with the purpose of reinforcing the prison, but the narration makes me think that he had left it alone ever since he first made it.
« Last Edit: July 03, 2012, 12:27:09 AM by Serack »
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Offline Ziggelly

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Re: Exploritory Reference: X compared to Y = possible Discrepancy?
« Reply #56 on: July 03, 2012, 12:57:52 AM »
bah.

Did you just add all those quotes? 

Could you add Ch 7 to the SK quote, ch 30 to the first GS quote, and ch 20 to the last GS quote?

Oh, and your post has been linked to in the OP now :)
Done. I even found that WoJ I mentioned.

Offline Eleyctra

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Re: Exploritory Reference: X compared to Y = possible Discrepancy?
« Reply #57 on: July 03, 2012, 03:57:08 AM »
This does a better job of following the spirit of this point in my OP than I was capable of while in the mindset of coming up with arguments

Thanks for doing such a great job of keeping our pontificating grounded.  ;D

I do have trouble catching up at first often times, so I always try my best to stay within the rules  8)
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Offline Serack

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Re: Exploritory Reference: X compared to Y = possible Discrepancy?
« Reply #58 on: July 10, 2012, 02:58:57 PM »
I was re-reading my copy of Dead Beat (Paperback) and on page 403, where Ramirez is telling Harry why he thought to Soulgaze Luccio, his name suddenly changes to Rodriguez... 

This happens in chapter 41.  It's page 376 on my nook.
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Re: Exploritory Reference: X compared to Y = possible Discrepancy?
« Reply #59 on: July 10, 2012, 10:24:41 PM »
Change in the details of Lasciel's Prison between when it was made in DM and a description of it in PG:

It is possible that Harry dug up the coin with the purpose of reinforcing the prison, but the narration makes me think that he had left it alone ever since he first made it.
I cant help but notice that others have failed to notice that pouring concrete onto the activated ring encased coin should have broken the circle.
unless its been mentioned....