Taking up the coin

[Chaos Necromancer]

i appologise in advance for my god awfull spelling.

Im running a DF game set in the fictional town of Brokade (affectionately called quigley town by the locals, slap bang in the middle of bumf*k nowhere, Australia) after discovering the local "legitimate buisnesmagician" was in fact not just a collecter of rare books/artifacts but an evil necromancer, the players had words with him and ended up cutting off his head. they then decided to root through his stuff to see if there was anything worth burning (found the mind of kemler and burnt it) and found a denarian coin in his collection of evil mojo ((he was formerly the face of the city threat "dont keep all your hand grenades in one basket")) .

long story short one of the players picked up the coin. and after a short conversation with the entity inside. Picked Up the Coin. I tried looking for denarian stats but they are only 8 refresh and i dont fancy NPC'ing the player just yet.....advice?

[devonapple]

How much Refresh does he have to play with?

[Adin]

My advice, is that a Denarian coin is an excuse to pick up powers and drop refresh (tied to an item of power discount of course,) at will.  It also allows communication with the fallen inside the coin (which you shouldn't charge refresh for since the entity can lie and manipulate them.) 

So if a character is in a stressful situation and needs to beastchange into a war form to win the day, the fallen will be thrilled to allow it.  BUT! they can't drop the power once they take it unless they reject the coin in full.  Since characters in the books can't see their character sheets, for most it doesn't take long to reach for too much power and become a puppet like Ursiel's host (negative refresh.) 

Essentially I see the Denarian coin acting almost identically to the changeling template, save that it is bound to an item of power.  taking the coin does not automatically grant the full gamut of powers, it just grants the option to take them up. 

[Haru]

Start him out on a slow path. Why would the denarian give the character everything he has at his disposal, when a little would do. It doesn't even have to be powers. Harry used the coin mostly for information, talking to Lash and using her perfect memory. Maybe give the character a small power boost that fits his overall theme, and slowly push him down the denarian path once he gets more refresh. And you can compel the hell out of the coin aspect, which leads to fate points for picking up temporary powers or simply invoking the coin aspect for all kinds of things.

Though I can see a character picking up a coin only go one of two ways in the long run: either he gives in to the denarian and becomes an npc, or he gives it up and loses all of the powers attached to it. Which might grant him new powers from another source in return (SotC, Soulfire, etc).

[DFJunkie]

It's also important to discuss the situation with the player and 1) make sure he really understands just how bad this can get, and 2) find out where he wants to take the character. 

Personally, I would suggest starting with his aspects.  He should probably change at least one, maybe his trouble, to reflect the fact that he now possesses the coin.  Then compel the shit out of it.  Let him see the price of the coin as soon as possible.

I would also advise against springing things on him, unless you clear the general idea of that possibility ahead of time.  Presumably he wants to play this character, and making it (to him) unplayable or just taking it away when he overrides his refresh is kind of crappy.  Not that he can't buy his way out of PCdom, just make sure that he's looking for that sort of exit.

[Chaos Necromancer]

Personally, I would suggest starting with his aspects.  He should probably change at least one, maybe his trouble, to reflect the fact that he now possesses the coin.  Then compel the shit out of it.  Let him see the price of the coin as soon as possible.

to be fair he did change his high concept to "a denarian and a gentleman" and because of jack napier being one of that characters antagonists he changed his trouble to "a host of enimies" which is nice.

thanks for all the advice guys. ill have a chat with him then start draggin him down the slow painfull path of corruption ^^ (incidently demonic co piolot?)

[Chaos Necromancer]

How much Refresh does he have to play with?

he has 3 left (so two) but i said to him i wouldnt mind if he swapped his minor talent magic (fire chaneling and disruption thaumaturgy) to Hellfire (keeping disruption as the specialisation)

[Praxidicae]

I'd definately have him take Hellfire, either in addition, or instead of his fire channelling/thaumaturgy. I'd then suggest using the temporary powers rules to allow him to pick up powers as and when needed, and allow him to rely on the Denarian spirit as a knowledge source (I'd even go so far as to stat it as a seperate character, allowing the Player to use this template for skill rolls if he wants to - either relying on the knowledge of the demon, or ceding control to it for whatever reason).
However, whenever he takes on a Power or uses the demon in any way I'd make it a negotiation with the Denarian and start dropping sponsor debt on him.

[sinker]

A Blackened Denarius is a great excuse for using the temporary powers rules on YS92 and the Debt rules in the sponsored magic section.

Personally what I would do, is simply offer him the solution every time he's in trouble. Conflict starting to look bad? I can help with that. Need to be over here and not enough time to get there? Easily done. Need some obscure knowledge? Not a problem. However, every solution would come with an ever increasing amount of debt. Allow him to take debt for whatever he wants (because of course there isn't much that one of the Denarians can't help with). Just make sure that you use that debt hard. Compel him into places he might not feel comfortable and into situations where he's at odds with allies. Then offer him more debt to get out of it.

[Sanctaphrax]

I suggest you look here.

[RevengeofTim]

Oh hi boss! It's your favourite denarian here! Feel free to drag me down the path of corruption, that's basically why I own the damn thing!

[vultur]

I suggest you look here.

Thanks for linking to it!

For those who might want to use it, though, I should mention I'm no longer totally happy with those stats... I made them nearly two years ago.

I was actually thinking of updating them not too long ago, and now I think I will...

---

Swapping Channeling and Thaumaturgy for Hellfire would actually free up a point of refresh, and I don't think it's appropriate that taking up a coin should give you *more* free will ... it's supposed to be pretty spiritually toxic ... so if the character completely gave up his existing spellcasting powers for Hellfire, I think that option should also require buying something else appropriate.

[Sanctaphrax]

I'm no longer totally happy with those stats

Any particular reason?

Or is it just the standard contempt that most people have for their less experienced and therefore inferior past selves?

[vultur]

Any particular reason?

Or is it just the standard contempt that most people have for their less experienced and therefore inferior past selves?

Hmmm, they're actually better than I had thought, so possibly the latter. Tessa and Ursiel still break the rules for Beast Change skill shuffles, though. And I'm totally not happy with Cassius/Saluriel.

(Also, were I writing them now, I'd give them full skill lists rather than "all others default to Average".)